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  #1  
Old 09-10-2011, 01:19 AM
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Observations of a first time rig builder

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I just wanted to post this for other first time rig builders. I've been a bass player for over 25 years but never owned my own rig. I do have an SVT-C and a 410HLF, but only used them 3 times about 8 years ago. All my gigs I've played for years were coffee house sized in which I've only used the PA or borrowed someone's (little) combo. I know it seems odd, but I just never really needed a rig. Anyhow, to make a long story short, this is my first time building a rig and I just wanted to post some of my own personal observations that I've gleaned over the past several month. I've been to lots of forums, I've been to at least a dozen stores to try out equipment, I've PM'd tons of people from different websites, I've perused youtube quite a bit, I've read schematics, read articles, etc, etc. I even spoke to some professional sound engineers. So yes, I've done my research, and yes, it seems a little obsessive. But really, I just enjoyed the experience. So here it is.

- Asking the question "which amp head and cab should I get" is almost equivalent to asking "what should I wear to tonight's gig".

- No one can hear "your" sound that's in your head no matter how hard you try to describe it.

- Guitar Center is not the place to go if you don't know what you want.

- Sound coloring is a way bigger problem than I thought. Each and every component (i.e. preamp, amp (head), and cab) can color (change) the sound of your bass if you're not careful. Although some equipment can color quite nicely. But remember, you bought your bass for its great sound, why would you want to change it?

- More speakers will generally give you more volume. This is mostly due to the amount of cone area and also the impedance change as you add more speakers. The lower the impedance, the more wattage you can get from your amp.

- Tube amps don't require as much wattage as solid state. Tube amps also sound better when the volume is up high while the solid state amps sound better when the volume is low. This tells me that if I were to buy a solid state amp, I'd get one with a lot of wattage so that I don't have to turn the volume knob up all that much. As for the tube amp, turn it up to 11.

- Lighter equipment doesn't always mean lower quality. But be careful; there's always something being sacrificed with lighter equipment, but it's starting to get better.

- Be careful on forums. There's a lot of helpful, knowledgeable people. But watch out for the people who are "religiously attached" to their equipment. You know the type.

- The quality of the components inside each device makes a HUGE difference! Unfortunately, the higher quality you go, the more money you pay. Unless someone is trying to rip you off.

- Commercial components aren't always the best, especially when it comes to speaker cabinets. If you can find a cab builder that knows what he/she is doing, you can get something that will truly blow you away. Let's face it, there's always something that can be built better.

- Be careful with product hype or product hate on a forum. Some of these people are there to do just that.

- A studio engineer is a great person to ask for advice when building a live sound.

- Lightweight PA/DJ power amps actually sound good now and can produce a whole lot of power for not much money. I've tried a few out and they blew me away.

- Speaker positioning can change your sound quite a bit. The reason 2x15s can sound just as loud as a 410 (which has more cone area) is because the speakers are positioned vertically and there's only one edge close to another speaker.

- Always have more power than you'll ever use. There's always a chance that when your volume is up too high, your sound will change for the worse. Also, if you're in a full band with a loud drummer, you don't want to struggle to cut through. Setting your level to 4 - 5 and feeling you're loud in the mix is a good thing (i.e. lots of headroom). Bassists NEED headroom. Try not to let anyone tell you otherwise!

- Aim to hear your bass. If you use this as your goal, the end result will be more satisfying.

- A bass head is generally a pre-amplifier and power amplifier in one box. These can also be purchased separately from different manufacturers.

- Bass heads can be a hybrid of tube and solid state. Most configurations is that the preamp is tube and the power amp is solid state. The general reasoning is that tubes have a musical quality when overdriven while solid state's quality degrades when overdriven. Although some SS manufacturers have found ways to fix this problem.

- Just a little bit of compression can add a HUGE step up in sound quality. Consider a head with a built-in compressor or even better, a fairly high quality one. On the other hand, too much compression can dramatically kill your sound! It's an expensive boost, but personally I think it's well worth it for both live and recording. I've tested pedals, racks, built in, and found that compressors differ quite a bit, so choose wisely (sorry, a little off topic).

- Rigs can be fast response to slow response. During my store hopping, I've noticed certain setups having a delay in sound. When I played I felt that the notes were dragging. This became a big concern to me especially when I realized that the best sounding stuff was dragging. I've found that most of the tube equipment dragged a bit. Some more than others. I don't want to be one step behind the band while playing, so I had to be careful with each of the components; mostly the type of preamp and the cab.

- Not pairing up your head and cab correctly can cheat you out of volume or change your sound for the worse. Some amps don't support specific impedance loads. So if your amp can only handle 4 or 2 ohm loads, connecting an 8 ohm cab will have unpredictable results depending on the amp and cab. Make sure you know the impedance of your cab and what your amp can handle. Also, when adding cabinets to your rig, in general, your impedance is cut by half. Example: 2 8 ohm cabs paired up equals roughly 4 ohms, and that's the new target load for you amp.

That's about all I can think of right now. I've already settled on my rig and will be posting it here after a few live gigs. I hope this experience helps some first time rig builders.

Last edited by u84six : 09-10-2011 at 01:35 AM.
  #2  
Old 09-10-2011, 08:16 AM
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An interesting read, for sure. After a false start, I, too, am now building a rig that's going to make me happy.

I could probably think of a few more things to watch out for. like...

- Talkbass is a terrific resource, especially for technical matters. Asking about the tonal differences between amps or cabs, however, will likely get you a wide variety of responses--including the remarkably unhelpful but totally predictable: "you have to try every possible piece of equipment your very own self, otherwise you're an idiot."

- There are TBers who play out of a single boutique 1x12 cab and idly daydream about possibly one day adding a second one even though they don't truly need it. If this kind of rig sounds too good to be true for your situation, it probably is. Some people really do need--minimum--a 4x10 or similar cab. Trust your gut. You should know which of these types you are and what your situation is calling for.
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Old 09-10-2011, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by scottfeldstein View Post
- Talkbass is a terrific resource, especially for technical matters. Asking about the tonal differences between amps or cabs, however, will likely get you a wide variety of responses--including the remarkably unhelpful but totally predictable: "you have to try every possible piece of equipment your very own self, otherwise you're an idiot."
Sheesh! Now tell me, who ever has said that on here? The reason we always tell people to go try a bunch of different stuff is because WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT! I have no interest in trying everything on the market, but the more stuff you try, the more likely it is you'll find something that hits your buttons. Law of averages.
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Old 09-10-2011, 08:49 AM
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I use two 1x12 cabs. Most of the time I gig with only one but when I have a large gig I take both.

And BTW my 2 1x12 cabs will eat your 4x10 for breakfast.
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Old 09-10-2011, 08:51 AM
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Ok, nobody ever says "idiot" on here.

But it's a pretty unhelpful truism that one gets in all of these kind of discussions. If everyone had the ability to play every amp and cab of interest themselves before purchasing, there would be little need to discuss such matters here. Trying as much stuff as you can is always a great idea. But not everyone has the same ability and opportunity to try equipment. Some people live in areas where that's not really possible.
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Old 09-10-2011, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by scottfeldstein View Post
Ok, nobody ever says "idiot" on here.

But it's a pretty unhelpful truism that one gets in all of these kind of discussions. If everyone had the ability to play every amp and cab of interest themselves before purchasing, there would be little need to discuss such matters here. Trying as much stuff as you can is always a great idea. But not everyone has the same ability and opportunity to try equipment. Some people live in areas where that's not really possible.
So what's your point?
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Old 09-10-2011, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Planet View Post
So what's your point?
Ever seen a 3-way bass cab in a music store? Most people are blown away when they try one but not much of a chance to try before buy.

EDIT: And oh, unless your 1x12s are loaded with 3012HOs, they won't .

Last edited by Windreaper : 09-10-2011 at 09:08 AM.
  #8  
Old 09-10-2011, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Planet View Post
So what's your point?
My point is only this. Sometimes when I see the "try everything yourself, that's the only true way to know what you like" I feel like they're also saying "it's pointless to ask this kind of thing here." And it isn't. If one lives in downtown Chicago or in west Los Angeles, one probably has the opportunity to try a wide variety of stuff before purchasing. If you live in the middle of nowhere--in a music store desert, if you will--you'll be lucky to try even one or two things in person.

"Try as much as you can yourself" is still sound advice. It just needs to be said that not everyone has the same ability to do that. In which case, having long discussions about the meaning of the word "growly" can actually be the most helpful thing you're gonna get.
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Old 09-10-2011, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Windreaper View Post
Ever seen a 3-way bass cab in a music store? Most people are blown away when they try one but not much of a chance to try before buy.

EDIT: And oh, unless your 1x12s are loaded with 3012HOs, they won't .
Not sure what my Berg HT112HT cabs are loaded with but they will smack.
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Old 09-10-2011, 11:40 AM
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I live in a musical "desert" so I can appreciate the trouble with try before you buy. In the end a road trip to a major city IS you best choice. We all hear different things from our rigs, some of us know how to adjust our equipment, some are completely clueless. So my opinion may not help but on the other hand could. I've heard on here "but the stores are a couple hours away" so what, how long do you plan on using the equipment? If you only need it for a day, buy blindly. If you need to live with the decision, MAKE THE JOURNEY! Or just buy with your eyes (Ampeg is a good example that you may never know any better after purchase).
Tube amps are not inherently "slower", if it is well designed and responds slow, the cab sucks or the head needs repair. Sure there is a difference in nano seconds, but get real. No ones ears are that fast
The trouble with asking people? It might be a good starting place, but in the end you get a consensus of long accepted standards. Not current real world as it may apply to your personal needs.
I'll shut my pie hole now
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Old 09-10-2011, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by scottfeldstein
Ok, nobody ever says "idiot" on here.

But it's a pretty unhelpful truism that one gets in all of these kind of discussions. If everyone had the ability to play every amp and cab of interest themselves before purchasing, there would be little need to discuss such matters here. Trying as much stuff as you can is always a great idea. But not everyone has the same ability and opportunity to try equipment. Some people live in areas where that's not really possible.
I can relate to that. At one point, I had to travel 50 miles to a store that someone recommended. It was a very long drive for little results.
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Old 09-10-2011, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by B-string
I live in a musical "desert" so I can appreciate the trouble with try before you buy. In the end a road trip to a major city IS you best choice. We all hear different things from our rigs, some of us know how to adjust our equipment, some are completely clueless. So my opinion may not help but on the other hand could. I've heard on here "but the stores are a couple hours away" so what, how long do you plan on using the equipment? If you only need it for a day, buy blindly. If you need to live with the decision, MAKE THE JOURNEY! Or just buy with your eyes (Ampeg is a good example that you may never know any better after purchase).
Tube amps are not inherently "slower", if it is well designed and responds slow, the cab sucks or the head needs repair. Sure there is a difference in nano seconds, but get real. No ones ears are that fast
The trouble with asking people? It might be a good starting place, but in the end you get a consensus of long accepted standards. Not current real world as it may apply to your personal needs.
I'll shut my pie hole now
Oh please, I see people on this board complaining about the same thing from time to time (response time). So yes, it can be a problem for some depending on what type of music you're playing. But I'm sure you're safe with your classic rock.
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Old 09-10-2011, 12:06 PM
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Oh please, I see people on this board complaining about the same thing from time to time (response time). So yes, it can be a problem for some depending on what type of music you're playing. But I'm sure you're safe with your classic rock.
I've been playing for over 40 years, tube, SS, swing to thrash metal. Have I had rigs I hated with slow response? You can bet the farm on that. I also repair equipment, started in High School mentored by a Doctorate of Electronics and Physics so almost as long as I have been playing I have been dealing with equipment problems. So what is your point? Oh yes, "Classic Rock".
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Old 09-10-2011, 12:11 PM
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So you live in West Eastness which has minus 2 music stores. Why can't you try before you "really" buy?
MF, Sam Ash, GC, the small boutique stores, the used sellers, all have some approval period. Sure they aren't sitting next to each other at the same time. (Hey they could with that big credit card limit you have.)
But you can try before you ultimately purchase.
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Old 09-10-2011, 01:15 PM
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I can relate to that. At one point, I had to travel 50 miles to a store that someone recommended. It was a very long drive for little results.
50 miles???? When I lived in California it was over 100 miles one way, 1 to 3 times a week for studio gigs! I have to travel 175 miles one way for a music store (and have done it).
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Old 09-10-2011, 02:54 PM
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Hell, I gotta drive almost 50 miles just to get across town, no biggie.
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Old 09-10-2011, 03:03 PM
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50 miles???? When I lived in California it was over 100 miles one way, 1 to 3 times a week for studio gigs! I have to travel 175 miles one way for a music store (and have done it).
Damn! That does suck.
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Old 09-10-2011, 03:05 PM
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Damn! That does suck.
Actually the drive isn't as bad here........LA "freeways" sucked!
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  #19  
Old 09-10-2011, 03:42 PM
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While i do believe every bass player should try as many amps and cabs as possible, i agree the "just try out a bunch of amps" response is somewhat frusturating. Sometimes, you just cant try the amp in question for one reason or another, or you just want to hear some opinions and experiences from other people about the amp. That particular response is rather unhelpful.
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Old 09-10-2011, 03:43 PM
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That particular response is rather unhelpful.
I don't want to overstate the case. It IS good advice--insofar as people are able to take it.
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