Obsession with watts

calebbarton · #1 08-05-2011, 10:38 AM

I had an opportunity to work on a RedBear MK60 amplifier this week. Its a hell of a thing. The owner uses it for bass...but its a guitar amp. It just has a bit more low end (understatement) than a normal guitar amp would have IMO.

So in an effort to understand his usage of this thing, after I finished the labor I plugged it in to my 4x10 (it has a 4ohm out before anyone freaks out). Being a 60w tube amp, I figured it would sound alright....moderate volume for the size of room.

Then something happened......

The thing is amazing. Half way turned up its already louder than I would normally play my GBE 750 and its still clean. I played around with it a little, finding some dirt, finding a lot of dirt, finding a lot of clean and really awesome tones from this...........guitar amp.

I understand that there are a lot of people out there who need volume because they play with a metal band or a loud band or because they want to. That makes sense to me. I play in a band with 3 guitars all with half stacks. I get the need for volume.

After playing around with this amp, I cant help but feel that I have absolutely no use for a 600w amp. I never play my amp past 3 and I generally tend to play pretty loud by some standards. At this point, getting more volume (for me) equals adding more speakers.

Im not trying to be critical of anyone or condemn those who use tons of power and move a lot of air. That would be lame. But as for myself, I dont need 600w to be happy anymore. I can be loud and happy with 60w from a guitar amp...........if I really want. Just kind of an eye opener I guess.

Munjibunga · #2 08-05-2011, 10:55 AM

Have you played it in a gigging situation?

hennessybass · #3 08-05-2011, 10:57 AM

Some guys like a lot of watts because you don't have to turn them up past 3 or 4, and that somehow equates to better, cleaner, quality sound.

Some of your experience might be specific to that amp. Try another 60 watt tube guitar amp, and you might only be able to turn up to 3 before the thing just starts to get nasty. Just depends on the amp. Also remember that tube amps are much more responsive to they way you play. You can go from clean to distorted just by changing your attack on the bass.

hennessybass · #4 08-05-2011, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Have you played it in a gigging situation?

Ya. Might be a very different amp in an actual gigging situation.

BurningSkies · #5 08-05-2011, 10:59 AM

I don't have any use for a 600w amp either.

wideyes · #6 08-05-2011, 11:16 AM

I do think people have a tendency to "overwatt" so they can be prepared for those "just in case" scenarios. But it's just a numbers game with builders - they know that higher numbers sell more, so they keep upping it. It's the same with PC power supplies - you have people buying 1000 watt PSUs to feed their 350 watt rigs. Unfortunately, marketing loves to sell us more than we need.

There are probably people who get 600w heads and know exactly why they need it, but my guess is there are a whole lot more folks out there (myself included, with my Markbass LMII) who probably won't ever really tax their amps.

In highschool I played with this guitarist who had a full stack. The gain and volume knobs floated around 1-2 at all times. Silly.

billfitzmaurice · #7 08-05-2011, 11:18 AM

Two things. First, a 600w amp will only sound twice as loud as a 60w amp, and that's only if the speakers can actually take 600 watts before exceeding excursion. Most 4x10s can't take more than 400w, if that.
Second, the position of the volume controls has no relationship with actual output power. Google: Gain structure.

moebass · #8 08-05-2011, 11:36 AM

I thought the same thing when i first an ampeg v4 guitar amp being played with a bass.It effing ruled! Crazy loud rock bass amp.

wideyes · #9 08-05-2011, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Second, the position of the volume controls has no relationship with actual output power. Google: Gain structure.

Now that's interesting. Mr. Fitzmaurice, you are an asset to the TB community

Munjibunga · #10 08-05-2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

I don't have any use for a 600w amp either.

Me neither. It's 750 watts minimum for me.

Munjibunga · #11 08-05-2011, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Two things. First, a 600w amp will only sound twice as loud as a 60w amp, and that's only if the speakers can actually take 600 watts before exceeding excursion. Most 4x10s can't take more than 400w, if that.
Second, the position of the volume controls has no relationship with actual output power. Google: Gain structure.

Except, of course, the 1,400-watt DNA DNS-410.

BurningSkies · #12 08-05-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Me neither. It's 750 watts minimum for me.

I'm running 3000.

lomo · #13 08-05-2011, 12:32 PM

900 and a nEarful 15-6 or 212 works for me. 300 is frustrating, even in a medium bar.

JimmyM · #14 08-05-2011, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Except, of course, the 1,400-watt DNA DNS-410.

Get real.

EDIT: Oh wait...this is this more of your Munji humor...ok, I get it...ROFLLOLLMFAOMOUSE.

nashvillebill · #15 08-05-2011, 12:36 PM

I cannot play with anything less than 1.21 jiggawatts.

BurningSkies · #16 08-05-2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashvillebill

I cannot play with anything less than 1.21 jigawatts.

Damn it Michael, quit gloating about your BTTF Rig.

calebbarton · #17 08-05-2011, 12:38 PM

Im trying to make an observation about the nature of power to volume in my current situation. A/B-ing it against my own amp tells me that it has a similar perceived volume output to my amp with its current settings.

I know that 600w is twice is loud as 60w, but Iv never been able to actually hear it with my own ears before. I will not gig the amp because it does not belong to me, but based on its usage by the owner I know he has already used it in gigging situations with success.

JimmyM · #18 08-05-2011, 12:40 PM

BTW, I just packed my B-15N and extension cab into the van for my gigs tonight and tomorrow. 25w of awesome tube power into two awesome 115 cabs. And I run it clean. And the highest wattage amp I've got is 300w and I've never even owned one that did more than 500w. Even when I was playing metal and hard rock, for most of it I was using a 100w V4B and an 810.

BurningSkies · #19 08-05-2011, 12:40 PM

What level of harmonic distortion at stage volume?

Rafael · #20 08-05-2011, 12:42 PM

I've always hated the "tube watts" versus "solid state watts" but in this case it seems applicable: Personally I run a lot more solid state watts than I'll ever need because the failure to do so would be crappy sound....nothing says "blech!" better than an overdriven SS output section....you may not care for the sound of the occasional overstepping of a tube amp's headroom but at least it doesn't sound like poo. The same goes for analog-v-digital: Overdriving your analog gives you grit, overdriving your digital gives you gack...