Odd Cab Shootout - BFM Omni 10 and LDS 15/6/1

[kesslari]

I finally got a chance to A/B my two "somewhat unusual" cabinets - a BFM Omni10 "widebody" and an LDS 15/6/1 (it's built to nEarful specs, but so as to avoid upsetting the purists I won't call it a fEarful).

I know that the BFM Omni 15 would be a closer comparison to the nEarful 15/6/1, but that's not what I have, and as a player (rather than a benchmarking entity) I'm interested in comparing the horses I've got, rather than the potentially best matched horses .

The Omni10 is the predecessor to the Jack 210, and mine is built at the 23" wide spec for additional bass. It's loaded with Deltalite 2510's, the recommended speaker for this enclosure, and has 4 piezos with a 3 way switch to select 0/2/4 piezos. I almost always leave the piezos on. I've gigged this cab in a lot of contexts, love the sound but found myself thinking that I might be missing out on some "bodyshaking" low end on my funk gigs. So I got the nEarful.

The LDS 15/6/1 is built to nEarful specs - 3015FL 15", 6ND410 midrange, and a horn, with the taller layout and shelf ports of the fEarful design. It is, I think, about as close as LDS gets to a fEarful and is a great sounding cab. Having only had it for a few weeks, it's only seen one gig and one rehearsal, and performed well in both contexts.


Physical Comparison
The LDS is taller and thinner than the Omni, giving it a smaller footprint and a more graceful appearance. The Omni is a hair lighter.

The LDS measures 30"x20"x16" and weighs 55 lbs.
The Omni10 measures 26"x23"x16" and weighs 50 lbs.

Photo of both cabs (yeah, I'm not much of a photographer either).
But you can see that the Omni is wider and squatter.


Sound Comparison
I used a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 to compare these cabs, with a Zon Sonus Special and an Ibanez ATK, recorded with a Zoom H2.
These are my subjective impressions - I don't have the tools to do a complex dynamic set of measurements.

The Omni is significantly louder than the LDS at the same settings - not surprising given that it is a 4 ohm cab (and the LDS is 8 ohms) and that it is horn loaded. I need to turn the amp's master volume up 2 clicks to roughly match the Omni's volume with the LDS, and each "click" on the GB Master is a significant chunk of oomph.

The Omni has a very strong midrange character, which I like a lot. The piezos are very transparent on the top end. Those who fear piezos for "harshness" would be very pleasantly surprised. The overall sound seems very natural to me - perhaps because I've used it for so long.

The 15/6/1 has more bottom to it. It more easily gives those "feel them in your gut" lows. The midrange character is very present, but very different than the Omni, more "noticeable" and less "natural" to my ear. The LDS has an L-pad for the midrange, and I imagine that spending more time with it I can get it to sound more natural. For these recordings the L-pad was set about 2/3 of the way up. I can see myself trying it higher.

With the lows really boosted the Omni can approach the low end of the 15/6/1, but it still has a qualitatively different feel. Down low, the 15/6/1 "moves" more, sonically. I'm not sure what that means, but I "feel" the lows more from the 15/6/1.

Samples below. One day I'll have the patience to make sure that I record "good" samples, but that day is not today, so please forgive the suckage in the playing.


Samples
Fingerstyle funk - Omni10
http://www.doumbek.com/personal/omni_fingerfunk.mp3

Fingerstyle funk - LDS 15/6/1
http://www.doumbek.com/personal/lds_fingerfunk.mp3

Fingerstyle funk - Omni with bass boosted
http://www.doumbek.com/personal/omni...rfunk_deep.mp3

Slap - Omni10
http://www.doumbek.com/personal/omni_slap.mp3

Slap - LDS 15/6/1
http://www.doumbek.com/personal/lds_slap.mp3

The different character of the mids really comes through when playing melodically. Here is a bit of Jeff Titus' "The Glass" - a melody I'm currently working on.
Omni:
http://www.doumbek.com/personal/omni_glass.mp3

LDS:
http://www.doumbek.com/personal/lds_glass.mp3

[JimmyM]

sweet playing, dude! got some chops...

i liked them both but i like that extra mid in the omni.

[Sartori]

I liked the Omni better. Probably cause of the different mids. Dunno.

You said the mid driver on the 15/6/1 was only 2/3rds up? I'd be curious to hear it all the way on.

[silky smoove]

Here's the correct link to your LDS fingerfunk clip:

http://www.doumbek.com/personal/lds_fingerfunk.mp3

Looks like you've got the Omni on both of them for that one.

[Sartori]

Indeed, I'd thought they sounded rather too similar on that one.

[silky smoove]

Just gave them all a listen. The LDS clips sound very similar to what I'm hearing from my LDS 15/6 (built to the same spec as yours except for the finish).

The Omni sounds good, but it seems to be missing out on the low end in favor of the midrange. This is in line with what I've heard from the "Jack" offerings as well. Are these BFM cabs intended to be used full range, or are they supposed to be paired with something like a Tuba or a Titan sub cab?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by silky smoove

Just gave them all a listen. The LDS clips sound very similar to what I'm hearing from my LDS 15/6 (built to the same spec as yours except for the finish).

The Omni sounds good, but it seems to be missing out on the low end in favor of the midrange. This is in line with what I've heard from the "Jack" offerings as well. Are these BFM cabs intended to be used full range, or are they supposed to be paired with something like a Tuba or a Titan sub cab?

+1 Nice playing too!

Interesting on the mid range attenuator setting. I have a clip of that cab up on my Youtube Channel (prior to shipping) with the mid driver set 'flat' (i.e., the -3db or so level that is achieved at the noon setting of the mid driver and meant to provide a reasonably even transition between the woofer and mid driver) and it was VERY upper mid present. However, my instruments (J basses with stainless steel roundwounds) have a lot going on up there. I really enjoyed the short time I spent with that cab.. beautiful aesthetics and a very big, even, fat, articulate tone.

I also think that the Shuttle 6, with that bit of attenuation in the low end, and a bit of power issue if you engage the low end boost at 8ohms with a cab like the 15/6 is probably not the best match to really get that big, powerful 15 wumping. IMO there. That probably minimized the low end difference between the two cabs.

Very nice!

[kesslari]

Originally Posted by silky smoove

Here's the correct link to your LDS fingerfunk clip:

http://www.doumbek.com/personal/lds_fingerfunk.mp3

Looks like you've got the Omni on both of them for that one.

Thanks - fixed it in the OP.

[gregoire1]

that last song kinda made me feel sad.


Thanks for the review.

[kesslari]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

sweet playing, dude! got some chops...

i liked them both but i like that extra mid in the omni.

Thanks! <Boris Badenov voice> I do ze best I can wit ze tools I got!</voice>

I really like the sound of the Omni, too.
The Omni 10.5 (the 110 version) will remain my cab of choice for coffeehouse-type gigs I do with my "semi-acoustic duo" where I get to play fretless all the time, and making booties shake isn't critical. It sounds absolutely perfect in that setting.

If I can work out the space (we live in a small-ish house) I'll keep the O10 as well, and use the 15/6/1 for funk gigs where I want the extra bottom.

[kesslari]

Originally Posted by silky smoove

Just gave them all a listen. The LDS clips sound very similar to what I'm hearing from my LDS 15/6 (built to the same spec as yours except for the finish).

The Omni sounds good, but it seems to be missing out on the low end in favor of the midrange. This is in line with what I've heard from the "Jack" offerings as well. Are these BFM cabs intended to be used full range, or are they supposed to be paired with something like a Tuba or a Titan sub cab?

They're full range. BUT some people do pair them with a Titan.
That would be a slick way to go, and I considered it, but the Titan is a BIG beast, and I also really wanted a one-cab solution.

[R Baer]

Nice chops! From the clips with the Shuttle set flat, I think the LDS cab would tend to get buried in the mix more than the Omni. It's ultra deep with not quite enough mid presence to get the definition you need live. I would imagine that you really need totally different EQ settings for that cab to work live with your style of playing (fear not the EQ knobs, they are friends, not foe). Maybe try some boost around the 400hz to 500Hz range, instead of turning up the mid range L-pad. What I'm hearing is a lack of mids from the 3015LF, not the midrange driver.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by R Baer

Nice chops! From the clips with the Shuttle set flat, I think the LDS cab would tend to buried in the mix more than the Omni. It's ultra deep with not quite enough mid presence to get the definition you need live. I would imagine that you really need totally different EQ settings for that cab to work live with your style of playing (fear not the EQ knobs, they are friends, not foe). Maybe try some boost around the 400hz to 500Hz range, instead of turning up the mid range L-pad. What I'm hearing is a lack of mids from the 3015LF, not the midrange driver.

good point, roger. if it were crossed over at 1.2-1.5k like most of these fearful designs, then the mid driver wouldn't even enter into it.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

good point, roger. if it were crossed over at 1.2-1.5k like most of these fearful designs, then the mid driver wouldn't even enter into it.

There are no fEarful cabs that cross over nearly that high. No idea on the LDS ones though.

[kesslari]

Originally Posted by R Baer

Nice chops! From the clips with the Shuttle set flat, I think the LDS cab would tend to buried in the mix more than the Omni. It's ultra deep with not quite enough mid presence to get the definition you need live. I would imagine that you really need totally different EQ settings for that cab to work live with your style of playing (fear not the EQ knobs, they are friends, not foe). Maybe try some boost around the 400hz to 500Hz range, instead of turning up the mid range L-pad. What I'm hearing is a lack of mids from the 3015LF, not the midrange driver.

Excellent point. I hadn't been thinking about that - and boosting around there makes a nice difference.
I'll probably call Don and ask where he crossed this cab over, too - been meaning to do that.

[silky smoove]

Don uses one of Ralf Patterson's crossovers typically. One crosses at 800hz, the other at 1.2khz. There is a lot of debate on which sounds better. Ultimately I think the 800hz would probably make more sense. That said, mine is done with the 1.2khz and it still sounds fantastic.

[mntngrown]

Originally Posted by R Baer

Nice chops! From the clips with the Shuttle set flat, I think the LDS cab would tend to buried in the mix more than the Omni. It's ultra deep with not quite enough mid presence to get the definition you need live. I would imagine that you really need totally different EQ settings for that cab to work live with your style of playing (fear not the EQ knobs, they are friends, not foe). Maybe try some boost around the 400hz to 500Hz range, instead of turning up the mid range L-pad. What I'm hearing is a lack of mids from the 3015LF, not the midrange driver.

Seems like good mid boost advice. My drummer asked me to boost mids with my new LDS, after gettin used to my Avatar 12's. However prior to boosting we recorded and the guitar player who is about 12 or more feet away as is the single recording mike, said he was finally hearing me clearly in the room and on the recording.
Final note: People who play better than I do have to quit posting clips then appologizing for their playing.
I am gettin a complex!

[mntngrown]

People who PLAY better than I do have to quit posting clips then appologizing for their playing.
I am gettin a complex

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by kesslari

Excellent point. I hadn't been thinking about that - and boosting around there makes a nice difference.
I'll probably call Don and ask where he crossed this cab over, too - been meaning to do that.

I think it's natural on a three way design to assume that in order to add in some midrange definition, one simply needs to turn up the level on the midrange driver itself. Most of these 3 way designs are not crossing over until somewhere in the 800Hz to1K region. I'm sure there are different opinions on this, but I think of this region more as upper mids. There is a lot of potential to dramatically change how your bass sits in the mix within the 350Hz to 600Hz range. The LF's have a very flat response below the crossover point, so boosting these mid frequencies needs to come from your amps EQ, and not the L-pad for the midrange.

[GrowlerBox]

Great post -- it's this kind of thing that makes TB shine for me. So big props, for that and the playing.

While the cabs are clearly very differently voiced, I liked them both. My bias lies towards the Omni -- I use a Jack, and like to take a hair off the upper mids, at least with the EUB, but I have to say, a fEarful design might also work for me, based on your clips.

Once again, nice work bro!