The Official fEARful Club!

[Hollow Man]

Excellent review Ken. Thanks so much for it; it's extremely helpful, as always.

[kringle77]

Barry, the off axis plots of many mids go out to around between 3k and even 5k before they drop off. The 18sound plot drops off firmly at around 2k.

[barryaudio]

I'm curious as to the diameter midrange you are comparing to (d matters). Also, be careful that some manufacturers use a scale of 6dB and other 10dB.

[kringle77]

Every mid that I have looked at has the off axis measurement shown. The 18sound doesn't look as good in that regaurd.

[Foz]

many mids...

Which ones?

Are you sure you are comparing similar diameter speakers such that the pistonic beaming physics are equivalent... are you sure you got your scale of reference to dB the same in the measurements your are reviewing?

FWIW there are elements of the 6nd410 that I find less than perfect - same as any other driver... but off-axis response aint one of them.

[Robby Hoinsky]

Originally Posted by KJung

Had a nice evening with the 15/6, Streamliner and P Bass Saturday. It was pretty much what I expected and, while not really my tone, I appreciated that big, wide open low end.

The experience was very similar to the EA VL cabs and the Acme's I've gigged through the years (I again was in to the mid driver design cabs quite early). Very open, wide, 'clean' tone, but with a lack of that midrange complexity (lower midrange punch and 'top of the cone upper midrange).

These cabs 'do what they do' very well. They give you a sort of 'front of house' tone on stage... again, big down low, flat in the mids (which can sound a bit scooped), and a very clean, somewhat clinical top end with virtually no distortion other than what you put into the cab. I can see where some would totally dig that, and I totally agree that this cab would give you a pretty good approximation of what a 'post EQ' send to the board would sound like through a full range PA system.

I've always kind of gone for a bit more of that 'post mastering in a recorded mix' bass tone, which is slotted above the bass drums and below the cymbals/guitars..... solid midrange, nice round upper bass, and a warm, paper cone sounding top end (I'm a big fan of the recorded tones of, for example, Leland Sklar and Michael Rhodes. I'm sure you could get this tone with these cabs if you have a lot of EQ and the ability to dial some warmth into your tone through the rest of the signal chain.

I again noticed very little impact of the 'improved midrange dispersion' when moving around the stage and out in the room (I brought an extra 20 feet of cable to check this out (it was a pretty casual gig), since that primarily impacts the higher upper midrange, which is not key to my personal bass tone.

Nice voice to have in my arsenal, but surely not replacing my beloved Berg 410 and 212, which seem to just have 'my tone' with very little knob twisting'.

While I find the 15/6 builds an improvement over the older EA VL and Acme models (more useable low end that is big but not flubby, and a more present top end that can keep up with that big driver at high volumes), I personally find my Thunderchild to be a better execution of this class of cab for me personally, when I want a more 'pure, transparent' tone. The bottom end of my Thunderchild is even more controlled, and the voicing of the top end is a total thing of beauty, which virtually no peaks or valleys that I can hear all the way up (due to the much more complete and complex voicing of the crossover). I can pretty much EQ the Thunderchild similarly to, for example, my more traditionally voiced Berg cabs, and hear that more transparent, flat, studio monitor type tone emerge with limited muss and fuss.

Anyway, nice box with a unique voice that I can see would work very well for some players! I will most likely use this box for the few outside gigs I do without front of house support, given its big, wide footprint that would work quite well in that situation.

Thanks for the honest review. I'm sure it will be very helpful to many.

Enjoy the cab.

Robby

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Robby Hoinsky

Thanks for the honest review. I'm sure it will be very helpful to many.

Enjoy the cab.

Robby

Unique sounding cabs. I continue to be pleased with your build. Very nice!

[Tunaman]

Sweet review, helps me out a LOT actually

[gregbackstrom]

Originally Posted by KJung

Had a nice evening with the 15/6, Streamliner and P Bass Saturday. It was pretty much what I expected and, while not really my tone, I appreciated that big, wide open low end.

The experience was very similar to the EA VL cabs and the Acme's I've gigged through the years (I again was in to the mid driver design cabs quite early). Very open, wide, 'clean' tone, but with a lack of that midrange complexity (lower midrange punch and 'top of the cone upper midrange).

These cabs 'do what they do' very well. They give you a sort of 'front of house' tone on stage... again, big down low, flat in the mids (which can sound a bit scooped), and a very clean, somewhat clinical top end with virtually no distortion other than what you put into the cab. I can see where some would totally dig that, and I totally agree that this cab would give you a pretty good approximation of what a 'post EQ' send to the board would sound like through a full range PA system.

I've always kind of gone for a bit more of that 'post mastering in a recorded mix' bass tone, which is slotted above the bass drums and below the cymbals/guitars..... solid midrange, nice round upper bass, and a warm, paper cone sounding top end (I'm a big fan of the recorded tones of, for example, Leland Sklar and Michael Rhodes. I'm sure you could get this tone with these cabs if you have a lot of EQ and the ability to dial some warmth into your tone through the rest of the signal chain.

I again noticed very little impact of the 'improved midrange dispersion' when moving around the stage and out in the room (I brought an extra 20 feet of cable to check this out (it was a pretty casual gig), since that primarily impacts the higher upper midrange, which is not key to my personal bass tone.

Nice voice to have in my arsenal, but surely not replacing my beloved Berg 410 and 212, which seem to just have 'my tone' with very little knob twisting'.

While I find the 15/6 builds an improvement over the older EA VL and Acme models (more useable low end that is big but not flubby, and a more present top end that can keep up with that big driver at high volumes), I personally find my Thunderchild to be a better execution of this class of cab for me personally, when I want a more 'pure, transparent' tone. The bottom end of my Thunderchild is even more controlled, and the voicing of the top end is a total thing of beauty, which virtually no peaks or valleys that I can hear all the way up (due to the much more complete and complex voicing of the crossover). I can pretty much EQ the Thunderchild similarly to, for example, my more traditionally voiced Berg cabs, and hear that more transparent, flat, studio monitor type tone emerge with limited muss and fuss.

Anyway, nice box with a unique voice that I can see would work very well for some players! I will most likely use this box for the few outside gigs I do without front of house support, given its big, wide footprint that would work quite well in that situation.

Your experience sounds similar to my first gig with my Anchak Audio 1212/6/1. The wide low-end, lean upper-bass and pronounced, clinical midrange was difficult for me to adjust to.

Since that first gig, after some study and conversation with Greenboy, I added an inexpensive dbx 131s graphic EQ to my Mike Pope pre / Peavey IPR-3000 rack. With the Sadowsky J5 in mind, I rolled off the output below 40 Hz a few dB, bumped 100-300 Hz about 3 dB (a little more at 125 Hz), rolled back 1-3 kHz about 3 dB and rolled back 4-5 kHz about 4 dB.

On Friday, I played a gig with my regular coverband in a large ballroom I've played several times before with Berg AE's. Compared to my first 1212/6/1 gig in a similar-sized ballroom, the sound on stage was much more balanced, with greatly-improved punch and still plenty of midrange clarity. This could be the best sound I've gotten in this venue to-date -- plenty of grunt, but none of the "cone-breakup" sound that I dislike.

I'm much more satisfied with the cabinet following this experience. I think my next step will be to tweak the crossover to permanently reduce the midrange output a few dB. In the meantime, I think I'll try swapping in other preamps to see how they affect the sound.

Side-note: my FOH tech wasn't as happy with the sound of my bass in the room during our first set. On a whim, he reversed the phase of the PA subs and it immediately fattened up the sound. I doubt that this has anything to do with my fEARful cab's design -- it's more likely to be a room or PA issue. Still, I'll keep that tip in my "bag-o-tricks" for future gigs.

[rpsands]

I sat down and spent some time comparing my Thunderchild 15 to my 1515/66 last night. An unfair comparison from a volume level, but a good one from a tone standpoint

I hooked my SD1200 up and cranked it up on both boxes. Surprisingly, they both took my normal volume (Gain 1 o'clock, master 12 o'clock, passive ABZ in series -> Opto Stomp with compression around 11 o'clock and makeup gain around 1) just fine.

The TC can really take a beating. Not a lot of cabs can handle the SD1200. No chuffing, no noise or distortion.

Everyone in the band preferred the 1515/66 by a lot. Which doesn't surprise me a lot--it's got a lot more midrange bite and it's about 3db louder at the same settings. I didn't adjust the eq at all or anything, just a/b'd for now. I'll spend some time dialing in the eq soon.

I was really surprised at the TC - I expected it to be kind of clinical or something I guess, but it was just clean and beautiful sounding. I liked it a little better personally. The mids and highs are a lot smoother and the low end does sound a bit tighter.

The weirdest thing about the TC that I did not expect is that it just sounds fat as all get out. I could totally imagine using this thing with like a 50 watt tube head and cranking it and going all motown or something.

(My stock EQ with the SD1200 in case anyone is interested, with the ABZ: -3db around 1200hz, +2 around 400hz, bass up 1db, VLE just barely on, vpf off...really weird how much my tastes are changing eq-wise)

[thudfromafar]

I guess I've had similar experiences.

For rock and louder music in general, my 15/6 is really hard to beat. It definitely sounds more punchy and aggressive in the mids.

For jazz and such, especially w/ double bass, my TCAF-12 is hard to beat. It's very "clean" sounding.

I'm hanging onto my 15/6 until I absolutely need to sell it, on the whim that I actually get in a rock band again... I'm very happy with both cabs. And yes I'm aware you can EQ both cabs to sound vastly different! Which is recommended for anyone who can only have one or the other.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by gregbackstrom

Your experience sounds similar to my first gig with my Anchak Audio 1212/6/1. The wide low-end, lean upper-bass and pronounced, clinical midrange was difficult for me to adjust to.

Since that first gig, after some study and conversation with Greenboy, I added an inexpensive dbx 131s graphic EQ to my Mike Pope pre / Peavey IPR-3000 rack. With the Sadowsky J5 in mind, I rolled off the output below 40 Hz a few dB, bumped 100-300 Hz about 3 dB (a little more at 125 Hz), rolled back 1-3 kHz about 3 dB and rolled back 4-5 kHz about 4 dB.

On Friday, I played a gig with my regular coverband in a large ballroom I've played several times before with Berg AE's. Compared to my first 1212/6/1 gig in a similar-sized ballroom, the sound on stage was much more balanced, with greatly-improved punch and still plenty of midrange clarity. This could be the best sound I've gotten in this venue to-date -- plenty of grunt, but none of the "cone-breakup" sound that I dislike.

I'm much more satisfied with the cabinet following this experience. I think my next step will be to tweak the crossover to permanently reduce the midrange output a few dB. In the meantime, I think I'll try swapping in other preamps to see how they affect the sound.

Side-note: my FOH tech wasn't as happy with the sound of my bass in the room during our first set. On a whim, he reversed the phase of the PA subs and it immediately fattened up the sound. I doubt that this has anything to do with my fEARful cab's design -- it's more likely to be a room or PA issue. Still, I'll keep that tip in my "bag-o-tricks" for future gigs.

I'm all about the 'cone break-up' top end tone on a gig (at least on a pop/rock/funk gig).

As RPSANDS found, the Thunderchild kind of does a nice job of stradling the typical 'woofer/tweeter' type cab and the more PA type vibe of the 15/6. Punchier, and strangely (given the visual cues of that big horn that suggest 'metalic and harsh') it has the sweetest top end I've ever heard.

+1 that with a lot of additional EQ power, you could definitely pound the 15/6 type builds into a more 'gig friendly' tone profile of more upper bass punch, and less of that clicky/ganky upper mid response, and still have the additional benefit of the amazing low end capability of that 3015LF driver.

I again find that the Thunderchild works well for me with most of my heads virtually flat, with maybe a bit of upper mid boost around the crossover point (1K) to provide more presence. Kind of strange... with the same, relatively flat EQ (my Markbass heads scope out reasonable flat on the scope), all three of my Berg AE's sound quite different but good, and the Thundchild sounds quite different but also good (again, in an almost studio monitor way). The fEARful 'needs more help', at least for my particular version of live bass guitar tone.

All good stuff. I'm a bit more into the plug and play thing myself, so my guess is the fEARful will eventually go. Fun to mess with though, and that big low end is really something!

[thudfromafar]

Originally Posted by kringle77

Barry, the off axis plots of many mids go out to around between 3k and even 5k before they drop off. The 18sound plot drops off firmly at around 2k.

I'm confused about this as well. AFAIK, driver diameter will determine beaming/dispersion more than the model/brand of mid driver.

[Horny Toad]

Originally Posted by KJung

I'm a bit more into the plug and play thing myself, so my guess is the fEARful will eventually go.

Dibs.

[rpsands]

Originally Posted by thudfromafar

I'm confused about this as well. AFAIK, driver diameter will determine beaming/dispersion more than the model/brand of mid driver.

Dust cap geometry can play a role as can a few other bits. It's not 100% set in stone. You'll notice different off-axis performance on most woofers that provide polar response charts, even in the same size.

Still, the diameter is the biggest deal of course and you can only fight it so much.

I haven't ever found a need to worry about beaming above 2500hz for bass. The first cymbal hit pretty much kills it. Roger Baer was dead right on that subject.

There are a few killers from an off-axis perspective. Becoming directional before 800hz is murder on your sound, before 1200hz almost as bad, before 1600hz slightly less so but still potentially bad.

At least, that's my experience.

[Robby Hoinsky]

Originally Posted by rpsands

Everyone in the band preferred the 1515/66 by a lot. Which doesn't surprise me a lot--it's got a lot more midrange bite and it's about 3db louder at the same settings.

Should be about 5-6 dB louder with the same power.

Robby

[kringle77]

For mids I have just been reading the charts. Thats it.

[kringle77]

In all fairness, I wish that I would have had a 31 band eq on hand when I've used the fearful type cabs. I know that it would have helped take the gank out of the 18sound mid and had more control over the lows and low mids. Then again, I don't like the thought of needing a huge eq to get my sound. I'll probably get bored someday and go that route. And then sell it and go back to sealed, one way cabs again.

[rpsands]

Originally Posted by Robby Hoinsky

Should be about 5-6 dB louder with the same power.

Robby

Naw, they're both 4 ohm cabs. It's closer to 2db louder really, because Duke's woofer is more sensitive than a single 3015LF--but it gives up some low end extension.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by kringle77

In all fairness, I wish that I would have had a 31 band eq on hand when I've used the fearful type cabs. I know that it would have helped take the gank out of the 18sound mid and had more control over the lows and low mids. Then again, I don't like the thought of needing a huge eq to get my sound. I'll probably get bored someday and go that route. And then sell it and go back to sealed, one way cabs again.

A much easier approach (for me at least) was just to pad the 6 down a few more dB and tune the port a little lower.