Old school sound?

[Vries125]

Hi there, I could use some amp advice.

Here's the thing: I play in a cross-over rap/rock band and do a lot of
live shows. Now I'm looking for a nice fat and gritty sound (guess you could say I like it 'old school') that is suitable for mid to large size stages, but does not require a grand budget (say max EUR1000,- or $1400,-). My main instrument is Sandberg PM5, which I run through a Hartke Bass Attack, MRX Envelope Filter and Boss octaver.

I fell in love with the sound of a second hand (pre-fender) SWR Super Redhead, but I'm afraid it won't push the db's enough on stage (even with an extention cab). My bandmembers suggest I look at 4x10 cabs fitted with a decent head, but all the (affordable) new stuff I tried so far couldn't
do it for me. Most were loud, but sounded to clean/flat to my ears. Where did all that gritty goodness go?

Any suggestions or similar experiences? I would appreciate to read about them!

Greetings,

Erik
Deventer, The Netherlands

[rodl2005]

2nd hand Ampeg SVT & 810.
Ashdown evo 575 with plenty of speaker's are able to do a pretty old school tone.
Mesa Walkabout, again with lots of speaker area 'should' get u loud enough-if u run it at 2-4 ohms
Even Mark Bass amps-with a VT bass pedal will give you ' Ampeg' old school

[Vries125]

Thanks for the suggestion. I've played on a lot of 4x10 rigs, including the Ampeg. But why doesn't the 'Classic' line sound like the real 70's classics? Is it the head (SVT-450H) or the cab (SVT 410HE)?

I've come across a second hand Mesa Walkabout M-Pulse, but it's the 300 watt over 4 ohm version. Think that will get me there? It ain't cheap though (guy is asking EUR850,-/$1194,- for it).

What about the Orange Terror Bass? Any good?

[peledog]

Get old strings. Never, ever, ever change your strings.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Vries125

Thanks for the suggestion. I've played on a lot of 4x10 rigs, including the Ampeg. But why doesn't the 'Classic' line sound like the real 70's classics? Is it the head (SVT-450H) or the cab (SVT 410HE)?

The head. The SVT-450H is NOT an SVT. It only looks like one.

[maxbass]

You like vintage tone and:

- you think that the SVT 450H is not enough vintage. I can understand this.

- you fell in love with a SWR Redhead combo. This is a bit strange.

[Vries125]

Originally Posted by maxbass

You like vintage tone and:

- you think that the SVT 450H is not enough vintage. I can understand this.

- you fell in love with a SWR Redhead combo. This is a bit strange.

No idea (I was born in 1984, plus I'm not much of a gearhead). Maybe because the SVT 450H isn't a "real" SVT? (according to JimmyM)

It wasn't a brand new Redhead, but a 1996 Super Redhead. So everyone has a different opinion of what "vintage" should sound like. I wasn't looking for a combo, I just like that sound (as can be heard here:
http://youtu.be/USFpTXMFcMU). Maybe I should rephrase my question:

What rig gives me 500+ watts over 4 ohm and sounds like the SWR SRH above at a pricetag under $1400,-?

How's that?

[Alex1984]

Just pair your Super Redhead with a good extension cab, maybe a Goliath.

[Vries125]

Originally Posted by Alex1984

Just pair your Super Redhead with a good extension cab, maybe a Goliath.

Ok thanx! Still every answer raises more questions with me...

Isn't the Goliath cab 8 ohm? That will only put out half the power (112,5 watts), as the combo internal speakers are 4 ohm. So I need a 4 ohm extension to get the full 2x225 watts right?

Does the extension cab need to be a pre-fender SWR in order to keep that sound? Or could I just pair it with say a modern day Gallien Krueger 4x10?

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Vries125

No idea (I was born in 1984, plus I'm not much of a gearhead). Maybe because the SVT 450H isn't a "real" SVT? (according to JimmyM)

It wasn't a brand new Redhead, but a 1996 Super Redhead. So everyone has a different opinion of what "vintage" should sound like. I wasn't looking for a combo, I just like that sound (as can be heard here:
‪The White Stripes "The Denial Twist" Bass Cover‬‏ - YouTube). Maybe I should rephrase my question:

What rig gives me 500+ watts over 4 ohm and sounds like the SWR SRH above at a pricetag under $1400,-?

How's that?

I can't say I ever had much of a problem getting any sound I wanted out of my old SWR SM-500, including a vintage sound. Or any amp, for that matter, even amps I hate. Anyone tells you that you can't get a certain sound out of an amp, and you can bet that they either never tried it or they're just parroting something they heard on the internet. Even the 450H, which I really don't care for, can do anything you need if you play with it long enough. Besides, "vintage" tones come more from turning off the tweeter in your cab.

Anyway, to explain what I mean by "real" SVT, they have tube preamps and a tube power amp. The current models Ampeg makes that fit that bill are the SVT-VR, SVT-CL, and SVT 2 Pro. They have other models labeled SVT, such as the SVT 3 Pro, 4 Pro, 7 Pro and 8 Pro, but they're tube preamps paired with a solid state power amp (hybrids). They're really good amps and I'd love a 7 Pro, but they don't have tube power amps. And the 450H has no tubes at all, and is really the B2RE in an SVT housing. I like every amp Ampeg makes these days but that one. I would check into the Ampeg PF500 before the 450H. For $400, it's unbeatable.

Don't get too wrapped in the gear, though. It can drive you crazy with so many options. Play a few amps in your price range, then decide which one you like best and get it and get to work.

[RickenBoogie]

Don't get too wrapped in the gear, though. It can drive you crazy with so many options. Play a few amps in your price range, then decide which one you like best and get it and get to work.

THIS^ common live rig average is - 300-500 watt head paired with AT LEAST a 4x10, 2x15, or 2x12.

[Vries125]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Play a few amps in your price range, then decide which one you like best and get it and get to work.

Sound advice. I'll make sure to check out some of those Ampegs. But as I gathered from SWR: the older the better.

Thanks for the help!

Regards,

Erik

[HipsterBass]

How about Genz Benz stuff...go with with either a shuttle 6.0 or a shuttle 9.0. I have a 6.0 and get grit and phat sound out of it just using the shuttle 6.0-12t combo...that's only 375 watts but paired with a 12t cab you can get 600w out of it with some great tone. I got my combo real cheap due to a price error on amazon ($850 for the whole combo). I believe you can get the combo for 1100...jut a though as I am super happy and love getting an old school tone! Mainly RnB and funk stuff.

Oh...I forgot to mention that that combo is only 32 lbs too

[jlepre]

Don't forget the Streamliner series. My STM-900 can get pretty gritty, and running at 4ohms puts out a substantial 900 watts.

[HipsterBass]

heck yeah!!

[danomite64]

Originally Posted by Vries125

It wasn't a brand new Redhead, but a 1996 Super Redhead. So everyone has a different opinion of what "vintage" should sound like.

I preferred my '93 Redhead to every Super Redhead I've played through, but I'd never call it 'old school sounding'. I think the head did a pretty good giving me that in the studio (recording direct), but those speakers were far from it. Playing it in a live situation with an extension cab exposed the head's lack of power, too. The Super Redhead is probably better there. But in a head-to-head comparison, the Super just sounded colder. I ended up selling my Redhead and getting an Ampeg Portabass; everybody used to whine about the Portabass's (lack of) power, but for me, it was a definite improvement. And, it sounds more old-school.

[Vries125]

Thank you for the suggestions! So far I've noted the following to my list of amps to check out:

- Ampeg SVT or Portabass
- Ashdown Evo
- Mesa Boogie Walkabout
- Genz Benz Shuttle or Streamliner

I haven't spotted an afordable Mesa or Genz-Benz yet (I normally don't buy my gear online, I want to hear, see and feel the stuff first hand). Hitting some musicstores again tomorrow to see what I can find. I'll keep you posted!

[Alex1984]

Originally Posted by Vries125

Ok thanx! Still every answer raises more questions with me...

Isn't the Goliath cab 8 ohm? That will only put out half the power (112,5 watts), as the combo internal speakers are 4 ohm. So I need a 4 ohm extension to get the full 2x225 watts right?

Does the extension cab need to be a pre-fender SWR in order to keep that sound? Or could I just pair it with say a modern day Gallien Krueger 4x10?

Yes, a Goliath is 8 ohms. which'd allow the amp to deliver 400W, and give 133W to the extension, and 266W to the internal. But due to the sensitivity of the Goliath being higher, you'd get equal volume out of both cabs. If you could find one in 4 ohms, that'd be even better.

I'd stick with an SWR of a similar vintage. Pre- or post- Fender shouldn't matter too much, as I believe SWR kept the same speaker provider for a pretty long time. The Goliath is a pretty legendary cab. IME, I didn't care too much for GK cabs.

Although, all of the above suggestions was based on you liking the Super Redhead, and not really going for "old school".

[hrgiger]

410s are nice but I think you are looking for the sound of a 215 cab! Try some 215s - you'll like them. There's nothing more old skool than 215s

Big Cabs Club
Big Cabs Club part II

[shtik]

Ampeg SVT-VR through 2x15 will fit best for your situation I think. A little less "old school" but one of my all time favorites - SVT2PRO through 2x15.

And the 450H has no tubes at all, and is really the B2RE in an SVT housing

Somehow I find the B2RE better sounding than the 450H.