One amp to rule them all! Need suggestions for a bass/guitar rig.

Soundstorm · #1 05-30-2010, 03:01 AM

I'm using a Mesa MPulse 600 that I find takes awhile to dial in to a good tone, then once I'm on stage, it's another bout of knob tweaking (it was the same with the previous 3 Mesa amps I've owned, though those were for guitar).

I need to buy another amp head for guitar for an upcoming band. I was thinking how great it would be to combine both needs into one head.

I definitely want to go the old Marshall route, but I was planning on building a clone, like maybe a Marshall Superbass 68 plexi era. Any notable musicians use the Superbass (bassists, that is)??

I'm looking for the Zeppelin/STP ultra rock sound, with some Jimi thrown in there. So, any advice for a head that can handle both?

Tim C. · #2 05-30-2010, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundstorm

I definitely want to go the old Marshall route

Want an old tube head that will double for guitar and bass?
You already have your own answer.

Soundstorm · #3 05-30-2010, 03:27 AM

That's what I'm hoping. I'm just not sure what it sounds like. Can't find any examples of it being used as a bass amplifier. Unless you can think of some musicians I might have heard.

#4 05-30-2010, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundstorm

I'm looking for the Zeppelin/STP ultra rock sound, with some Jimi thrown in there. So, any advice for a head that can handle both?

Jimi, as in Hendrix? He had his Marshalls modified from EL34s to 6550s for a very loud and clean sound. That would work quite well for both guitar and bass...

You might be able to find the so-called American Market Marshalls with the 6550s for sale. Most players that bought them expected to sound like Hendrix and were hugely disappointed!

IMO, if you're going to go that route, just pick up a late 60s/early 70s Sunn 200S, or similar Sunn amp. Loud and clean. Then use pedals to adjust your tone and distortion, etc.

Vintage Traynor amps also work well for both guitar and bass...

MAMMOTHvolume · #5 05-30-2010, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundstorm

I'm using a Mesa MPulse 600 that I find takes awhile to dial in to a good tone, then once I'm on stage, it's another bout of knob tweaking (it was the same with the previous 3 Mesa amps I've owned, though those were for guitar).

I need to buy another amp head for guitar for an upcoming band. I was thinking how great it would be to combine both needs into one head.

I definitely want to go the old Marshall route, but I was planning on building a clone, like maybe a Marshall Superbass 68 plexi era. Any notable musicians use the Superbass (bassists, that is)??

I'm looking for the Zeppelin/STP ultra rock sound, with some Jimi thrown in there. So, any advice for a head that can handle both?

lemmy uses a superbass.

Building a superbass would be a pretty good call for bass and guitar use, you could even add some switching to go between the superlead and superbass specs (theres not a whole lot of difference)

synaesthesia · #6 05-30-2010, 09:41 AM

Axe FX

Soundstorm · #7 05-30-2010, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAMMOTHvolume

lemmy uses a superbass.

Building a superbass would be a pretty good call for bass and guitar use, you could even add some switching to go between the superlead and superbass specs (theres not a whole lot of difference)

Yeah, well I'd probably keep the bass specs being as the guitar band is southern rock/stoner style. I was going to make it a 100 watter and throw in a PPIMV based off a Ken Fischer (Trainwreck amps) design, where once the MV is all the way up, it's completely out the circuit.

I do have one Motorhead album, but I haven't listened to it in a long time, I don't remember Lemmy having a particularly good tone, though. Would a 100 watt Superbass have enough headroom to have a decent clean tone if I wanted it?

Soundstorm · #8 05-30-2010, 10:10 AM

What about the Orange Thunderverb 200?

anderbass · #9 05-30-2010, 10:40 AM

The Mesa D-180 can be awesome for both guitar or bass.

P. Aaron · #10 05-30-2010, 11:25 AM

I love my Hartke LH1000.

bmc · #11 05-30-2010, 12:48 PM

I have an amp that I bought for practing only. Since getting it, it's been used as a small PA for rehearing and used by a guitarist on more than one occasion.

The Roland CB-100 has reverb, chorus, flanger, delay. My guitarist friend selects the Fender Bassman modeling setting, with a touch of reverb and it lounds like a legit vintage Fender. For a grittier sound, run the gain fairly high and control volume with the master.

If you need more power, add a cab with another head, or get a powered cab.

When used as a PA, we took a small 6 channel mixer and plugged it into the Roland. The reverb adds a nice touch.

It's an impressively versatile amp.

realbadgroove · #12 05-30-2010, 12:51 PM

I could be wrong but I think the bass player for pearl jam uses that setup at least he did on Austin city limits

bigbajo60 · #13 05-30-2010, 12:58 PM

Mesa Buster head might fit the bill...

Soundstorm · #14 05-30-2010, 10:46 PM

Realbadgroove: you mean the Superbass setup

also, I'll check into those Mesa amps (haven't really heard of either one).

Soundstorm · #15 05-30-2010, 10:59 PM

Holy schnikes! The D-180 looks to be exactly what I'm looking for! Thanks for the suggestion

Tusec · #16 05-30-2010, 11:54 PM

Actually the non-bright channel on a Super Lead is nearly identical to a Super Bass. If you just did the standard Super Lead circuit and plugged your bass into the I input and your guitar into the II input, you'd pretty much have it.

The only other major difference I see is in the power amp where the Super Bass uses bigger coupling caps for the output tubes (1uF versus .022uF). You'd probably want to go with the Super Bass values there to let more bass frequencies get through. The larger value probably wouldn't affect the guitar tone much since a guitar doesn't really generate those frequencies, but you'd want it for your bass tone.

Also, you'll be better off going with a post-PI phase inverter rather than pre-PI. The classic Marshall circuit doesn't have enough gain prior to the PI to do much clipping. It'll clip some, but not much, not enough to be satisfying. That circuit generates most of its distortion in the PI. So you'll want the master after the PI. I've used the post-PI mv in a Marshall clone and it sounds great.

And don't worry about the post-PI mv not being as transparent as the pre-PI mv. When you turn it full up, it's transparent. You'd never know it's there. Just like the pre-PI mv, when it's turned up all it does is add a 1 meg resistance to ground, which is so big that the circuit doesn't notice it.

IIRC (it's been about 10 years since I've done any serious amp modding) the Ken Fischer Trainwreck circuit has 3 gain stages before the PI. The classic Marshall circuit only has 2 (there is a third stage but it's set up as a cathode-follower and doesn't add any gain). That's why it doesn't clip much prior to the PI.

UncleFluffy · #17 05-31-2010, 12:03 AM

Alternatively, have you considered a clean SS power amp + a guitar POD with half the patches replaced with bass patches?

MAMMOTHvolume · #18 05-31-2010, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundstorm

Yeah, well I'd probably keep the bass specs being as the guitar band is southern rock/stoner style. I was going to make it a 100 watter and throw in a PPIMV based off a Ken Fischer (Trainwreck amps) design, where once the MV is all the way up, it's completely out the circuit.

I do have one Motorhead album, but I haven't listened to it in a long time, I don't remember Lemmy having a particularly good tone, though. Would a 100 watt Superbass have enough headroom to have a decent clean tone if I wanted it?

Superbasses still do loud and clean with the right cabs with a decent set of el34's you'll be pushing 120watts clean. They get real loud when you crank them though which is where they come into their own. A PPIMV is always a good addition to most amps.

megadan · #19 05-31-2010, 11:05 AM

V4/SVT sounds good for bass and guitar (just ask the Rolling Stones)

Guild, Traynor (YBA1 for dirty or YBA3 for clean), old Sunn. Pretty much any old tube amp will sound good for guitar, it's just a matter of having enough clean power for bass.

Soundstorm · #20 05-31-2010, 09:56 PM

The more I look into it, the D-180 looks perfect, I can get that big all tube tone I've been wanting, then use my guitar through it for my stoner rock project. Josh Homme used to go through a bass amp in Kyuss. Sorry AxeFx/pod guys, but I'll be snow skiing in hell before I go digital (no offense, I've heard it work well, it's just not for me). Tusec, the mv is a post PI, so no worries there, but thanks for the info.

If I sell my current head to buy a D-180, then I'll have some coin leftover for a Superlead/bass kit for my blues/rock projects. All I need is a couple cabs (avatar 4x12, Ampeg fridge), and I think I'm set!

Thanks for all the sound advice guys! \m/