Opinons wanted on Mesa PH410 and PH610 cabs

[dave2]

Hey guys/gals,
I'm playing country/classic rock/southern rock in a 5 piece band in medium sized clubs and with PA support (band just got a new PA - Mackie board and mains with another brand subs).
I recently purchased a Mesa 400+ amp that I love! So I'm thinking I might sell some of my other stuff and go with Mesa cabinet(s) too. I'm considering getting either the Powerhouse 410 or Powerhouse 610. Right now I'm running the 400+ with one Eden 212 and one Eden 210. The rig sounds good! But --- (here is the GAS) perhaps using one brand (Mesa) for amp and cabs might be even better (I know it will plus its fun to buy and sell gear)--- and I've heard good things about the PH410 and PH610 cabs (I'm not really interested in cabs with 12"s or 15"s.)

I'm wondering if one PH410 is loud enough? Get two possibly which might be overkill?
I'm wondering if the PH610 is overkill since there is PA support.

GC quotes $999 for a PH410 which seems high for a 410 cab (no discounts on Mesa stuff) and they have to special order the PH610 which goes for $1219. I'm looking for used but not seeing much in the last few days. Anyone want to sell me either and PH410 or PH610?

Any opinions on what I might do? Are there any TBers who are users of both the PH410 and PH610?

Thanks in advance.

Dave

[Plstrns]

If you can haul the 610 get it. If you're not into horns, for ~$1200 get a Bergantino 610. It's like a sealed 810 volume+ with a little more bass extension. Very portable as far as 610's go around 100 lbs.

http://www.bassemporium.com/item.php?sku=NV610

I heard a Mesa 400+ tonight (TB member rockstarbassist) thru a Berg 610= awesome. Really awesome fingerstyle!! I'm thinking that's how you play...?

[RickenBoogie]

The Mesa cabs meant to pair with the 400+ are the older Deisel series. I highly recommend a Deisel 215 with that head- it's a match made in Petaluma.

[engedi1]

I have had the PH410 and I'll say this. It sounded great, and is an amazing cab. I would think that 1 of them would be sufficient for almost any gig, louder than that and you will have PA support anyway. However.... it weighs a freaking ton! It is over 100 lbs, and is almost cubical in shape. This made it, incredibly awkward to move. Unless you have a pickup truck, it will NOT fit in the trunk or backseat of any normal car. I HAD a pickup, and I almost killed myself getting it up to the bed, and I am not a small guy! I though it was my dream rig when I got it to match with my Mpulse 600, but I ended up selling it within 6 month for 2x112 Aguilar GS112. Ever since, I have become a believer in vertical stacking, 12 inch speakers, and smaller speakers that I can stack 2 or 3 of as needed. I notice that you are using 12's now, and I can tell you from bitter experience that if you like that sound now, you probably won't be happy with only 10's. You have really great cabs now, I wouldn't feel any big pressure to change them, it probably is just gas! One thing to consider, is the TC electronic 2x12 (what I have now) They are vertical in their orientation, which gives better dispersion of the sound. If you stack 2 of them, you have a 800 watt, 4x12 rig with all the speakers vertically aligned. It is a great concept that really delivers. However, TC cabs are midrangey, and don't have super=glassy highs like your Eden, they might not do for you. But if you can find a music store that sells them, you should test drive it. Folks on the TC forums have said the Mesa heads sound great with them.

[dave2]

Thanks all for advice. I would love to try out a Berg 610 but rarely see one forsale or at GC. They did have a Mesa PH410 which sparked my interest in creating this thread.

If the Mesa PH410 is nearly cubicle and over 100 lbs it is heavy and oddly shaped. The band does have a trailer haul equipment but ... it would fit my Toyota Camry I am guessing.

I do have 2 Eden 112 cabs and I use those singly for small gigs. I wonder how loud 4 of those would be.

What other options in a 610 cab do I have? I hear generally bad things about the Ampeg 610s.

Have a great day!

Dave

Originally Posted by engedi1

I have had the PH410 and I'll say this. It sounded great, and is an amazing cab. I would think that 1 of them would be sufficient for almost any gig, louder than that and you will have PA support anyway. However.... it weighs a freaking ton! It is over 100 lbs, and is almost cubical in shape. This made it, incredibly awkward to move. Unless you have a pickup truck, it will NOT fit in the trunk or backseat of any normal car. I HAD a pickup, and I almost killed myself getting it up to the bed, and I am not a small guy! I though it was my dream rig when I got it to match with my Mpulse 600, but I ended up selling it within 6 month for 2x112 Aguilar GS112. Ever since, I have become a believer in vertical stacking, 12 inch speakers, and smaller speakers that I can stack 2 or 3 of as needed. I notice that you are using 12's now, and I can tell you from bitter experience that if you like that sound now, you probably won't be happy with only 10's. You have really great cabs now, I wouldn't feel any big pressure to change them, it probably is just gas! One thing to consider, is the TC electronic 2x12 (what I have now) They are vertical in their orientation, which gives better dispersion of the sound. If you stack 2 of them, you have a 800 watt, 4x12 rig with all the speakers vertically aligned. It is a great concept that really delivers. However, TC cabs are midrangey, and don't have super=glassy highs like your Eden, they might not do for you. But if you can find a music store that sells them, you should test drive it. Folks on the TC forums have said the Mesa heads sound great with them.

[engedi1]

Dave,
Since those Eden 1x12 are 8 ohms, 3 of them would have you down to 2 ohms, which many amps won't support. 4 of them would certainly melt your amp as the ohmage would be something like 1.3 ohms and almost no amps are designed for that. Don't try it! I would think that three of the Eden 1x12 would be PLENTY for almost everything you are doing, especially since you have PA support. Or, if your eden 2x12 is 8 ohm, one of the 112 on top. that is what I am running now myself, a TC 212 with a TC 112 on top of it.

[FarkusSWR]

I have been going back and forth in my mind about the PH410 and the PH610. I have pretty much decided on the 610 for a few reasons:
-I drive a small SUV and can tilt and slide the 610 by myself, as opposed to trying to deadlift the 410, which is pretty much what I am doing now.....it sucks.
-The additional height puts the top pair of speakers within earshot. I was concerned about the 410 being so low.
-It sounds fantastic.
-The $$ difference is small going from the 410 to the 610.
Obviously these are reasons specific to my situation, YMMV.
Soundwise, hard to go wrong either way.........

[Plstrns]

Originally Posted by FarkusSWR

I have been going back and forth in my mind about the PH410 and the PH610. I have pretty much decided on the 610 for a few reasons:
-I drive a small SUV and can tilt and slide the 610 by myself, as opposed to trying to deadlift the 410, which is pretty much what I am doing now.....it sucks.
-The additional height puts the top pair of speakers within earshot. I was concerned about the 410 being so low.
-It sounds fantastic.
-The $$ difference is small going from the 410 to the 610.
Obviously these are reasons specific to my situation, YMMV.
Soundwise, hard to go wrong either way.........

+1

Those are all the right reasons.

OP, If you really like horns the Mesa is a great cab. I think you'd flip for a Berg though.

[Crabby]

I have the Mesa PH412 and can not recommend it enough! Its a tall cab, same size as their 810 but it weighs a lot less as it used Neo drivers. I think she weighs in at 134 pounds. It sounds like a lot but the cab is so well designed and easy to roll up to my van and then just tilt it in. The only place it would be too heavy is if you had to deal with stairs by yourself.

The tone from this cab is amazing and I sold off my Eden cabs after discovering Mesa gear.

[bassman10096]

Why not modularize with a pair of 8 ohm Mesa 212s? Also neo - surprisingly light for a Mesa (78 lb each). A single 212 will do a lot of jobs you would use a 410 for, plus - if one of your 212s blows a driver, you still have the other cabinet. I love the Mesa cabs, heavy though they might be - but I really like the combination of Mesa engineering (brick shX&house) with neo drivers.
I've been the 210 and 410 route and have played 610s and 810s. But 12" speakers really do a nice tap dance between the modern and vintage 15 sounds.

[Krügmeister]

I use 1 diesel 115 with a 3015 HO in it when i use my 400+
I like that I have to push the head a bit harder to get volume than I would if I had a 215.
It helps get the strained tube grind without the insane loudness of the 215.

[dave2]

Originally Posted by engedi1

Dave,
Since those Eden 1x12 are 8 ohms, 3 of them would have you down to 2 ohms, which many amps won't support. 4 of them would certainly melt your amp as the ohmage would be something like 1.3 ohms and almost no amps are designed for that. Don't try it! I would think that three of the Eden 1x12 would be PLENTY for almost everything you are doing, especially since you have PA support. Or, if your eden 2x12 is 8 ohm, one of the 112 on top. that is what I am running now myself, a TC 212 with a TC 112 on top of it.

Yes my Eden 212XLT is an 8 ohm version. I almost bought a second one of those once but did not. I usually run the the 212XLT and an Eden 210XST both 8 Ohm cabs. This combination sounds good.... but thought I might get away with just one cabinet if it was a 4x10 or 6x10. Maybe I'll look for an Eden 410XLT... if no one really likes the Mesa Boogie PH410.

I also gotta say ..... Man I love my Mesa 400+ every time I play it!

[dave2]

Originally Posted by Plstrns

+1

Those are all the right reasons.

OP, If you really like horns the Mesa is a great cab. I think you'd flip for a Berg though.

+1 to the +1 for the right reasons... lol

Well actually I don't care if the cab has a horn. I usually turn it down nearly all the way. So yea I might like the Berg 610 and would love to try one. Anyone have a Berg for sale around the Dallas area? I've only seen one for sale on Craig's List once and I had no money at the time.

[dave2]

Originally Posted by Krügmeister

I use 1 diesel 115 with a 3015 HO in it when i use my 400+
I like that I have to push the head a bit harder to get volume than I would if I had a 215.
It helps get the strained tube grind without the insane loudness of the 215.

I've not played a Diesel model Mesa cabinet but they do come up for sale more frequently than PH models on Craig's around this area. They are usually the 1x15 models which I'm unsure on. I'd like to try one of these on a gig sometime.

Thanks for all for the info on the Mesa Boogie cabs......mas por favor!!

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by Plstrns

+1

Those are all the right reasons.

OP, If you really like horns the Mesa is a great cab. I think you'd flip for a Berg though.

Agreed - those were all the right reasons... I'll also add that the Berg IS a killer cab, but see it like this:

If you're looking for "old school" sound, the Berg is as good as it gets - and it is significantly lighter than the PH610...

If you're looking for a more modern sound, and like tons of low end, the PH610 is as good as it gets - with SWR's Goliath Sr coming in a close 2nd...

I own the PH610, and it's my main gigging cab - I've gigged the PH410 plenty of times, and feel that *for me* the PH610 is a WAY better option... I end up being too loud when playing the 410, since it's so low to the ground - it's literally beaming at my knees, while the 610 has two drivers up closer to my ears... They'll both get loud enough for most gigs, but I hear myself much better with a 610, without having to get crazy loud...

I'll also state that I think the PH412 is a killer cab, also - and *think* I could be just as happy with one of those as I am with my PH610... As it is, I'm quite content with the PH610, and couldn't recommend it enough - I'm definitely keeping this cab... I've been gigging the PH610 for over a year, and it's the best cab I've ever played thru for modern rock and metal...


- georgestrings

[tombowlus]

I have not spent any quality time with a PH410, though I do own a Diesel 410, and it was one of the gear purchases that really opened my eyes to the fact that not all cabs of the same configuration will sound alike. I went on a 4x10 quest, figuring that I would end up with either an Eden or SWR, but after listening to every 4x10 I could find, I walked away with this Diesel 4x10. To my ears, it was much more articulate and had greater note to note distinction/clarity than either Eden or SWR, but sounded just as full as either of them.

Interestingly, I ended up pairing that Diesel 410 with an Eden 212XLT (perhaps my favorite Eden cab, ever), and that was my main gigging rig for several years. IME/IMHO, those two cabs went very well together.

The PH-series uses a different porting scheme, and I know that Boogie has used a variety of 10" drivers over the years so I am not sure how close the Diesel 410 sounds to the PH410.

I have gigged with a PH610, and that is indeed one impressive cab. When I play it solo, it seems a little woolly to me, but man does it sit well in a mix! I am also a huge fan of the PH212/PH210 combo (though I'd love to hear either a PH212/PH212 stack or a PH410/PH212 stack).

As always, YMMV.

Tom.

[rockstarbassist]

Originally Posted by Plstrns

If you can haul the 610 get it. If you're not into horns, for ~$1200 get a Bergantino 610. It's like a sealed 810 volume+ with a little more bass extension. Very portable as far as 610's go around 100 lbs.

http://www.bassemporium.com/item.php?sku=NV610

I heard a Mesa 400+ tonight (TB member rockstarbassist) thru a Berg 610= awesome. Really awesome fingerstyle!! I'm thinking that's how you play...?

Thanks for coming out mang. I was kinda let down by the DI out on that amp, and I'll be testing heavily my Heil the next few weeks so next time we play out, that'll be my signal hitting FOH. But I was kind of in a pinch and just needed to make sure the signal was strong. Imma try to incorporate more fingerstyle into our stuff also. I'd gotten away from it w/ this new band but I'll agree the amp just responds to that touch so well.

But yeah, it's tough to argue against the NV with the 400+. I kinda want to look at a PH610, but that'd only be for onstage tonal differences that aren't going to translate night and day different through the PA to the audience. Unless I could get a FT deal going on locally, I'll stay w/ my 610.