Orange ADB200 VS HiWatt 200 head...

fourstringfrank · #1 04-20-2011, 02:22 PM

Hi friends...Im planning of getting another tube head,for the moment I´ll using a AMPEG V4B head wish I run through a ampeg 410 cab and a ampeg 115 cab.
I like this rig mostley but sometimes I feel that 100w is on the edge when you want some muscles extra so to speak.
The thing Im after is a tube head whit a very midrangey sound and tight lows...(I don´t fancy that boomy bass sound)
I like the V4 head but sometimes I feel that the Ampeg can be a bit muddy in the low freqs...if I push the midrange all the way up and have fresh roundwounds on I can get pretty close to what I want sound wise whit the ampeg head but not all the way.
Anyone who´ll have some experience here on the board whit the HiWatt 200 vs OrangeADB 200?
Thanxx in advance.

rosstanium · #2 04-20-2011, 02:25 PM

Maybe consider the Mesa 400+ ???

Tim1 · #3 04-20-2011, 02:43 PM

I run an SVT VR and an Orange ADB200 Mk3, not quite what you are asking but I can comment on the Orange. If you like lots of midrange the Ampeg is more for you, plus it will stay cleaner louder (and it is VERY loud).
The Orange AD200 is a fine amp, but has more of a full range sound. To my ears and through my Bergantino NV610 or NV215 cabs it definitely has more bottom and a more natural top, the midrange is not emphasised like the Ampeg. However, this bottom is tight and detailed, not loose and ill-defined. You will no doubt have read that the Orange breaks up early - this is not really an issue. You can make it overdrive at a reasonably quiet level by using the master and input volumes judiciously, but at the same time you can also keep it clean to a very loud level too. Bottom line, it still has a ton of clean grunt. I have also found it to be quite sensitive to pickup output, if you like clean lower the pickups a tad and there is heaps more clean output from the preamp. Sorry, can't comment from personal experience on the Hiwatt but I would expect it to be a fine amp also.
I have owned a Mesa 400+ and would take the simplicity of use and tone of the Orange over one any day (obviously IMO/IME).

Mr. Foxen · #4 04-20-2011, 02:50 PM

If the Orange has the 3 band eq knobs, its pretty much a Fender tone stack and only cuts mids. Better off with something else if loads of mids is your thing. If it has the 2 band channel, that's happy.

coreyfyfe · #5 04-20-2011, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Foxen

If the Orange has the 3 band eq knobs, its pretty much a Fender tone stack and only cuts mids. Better off with something else if loads of mids is your thing. If it has the 2 band channel, that's happy.

It's a 3 band but IIRC all the knobs are cut only (ie passive tone circuit).

chadds · #6 04-20-2011, 03:24 PM

A real Hiwatt is quite different from the Orange. It sounds rich, clear and every frequency is there. No grit is it's only "weakness". Now you can get it but at a volume that could kill small animals.
Listen to "Who Live at Leeds". P-Bass, Rotosounds and some Hiwatts. OMG!
Required listening for us bassists.
After hearing that, know that the Hiwatt can do fat low bottom too!

Bassmec · #7 04-20-2011, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fourstringfrank

Hi friends...Im planning of getting another tube head,for the moment I´ll using a AMPEG V4B head wish I run through a ampeg 410 cab and a ampeg 115 cab.
I like this rig mostley but sometimes I feel that 100w is on the edge when you want some muscles extra so to speak.
The thing Im after is a tube head whit a very midrangey sound and tight lows...(I don´t fancy that boomy bass sound)
I like the V4 head but sometimes I feel that the Ampeg can be a bit muddy in the low freqs...if I push the midrange all the way up and have fresh roundwounds on I can get pretty close to what I want sound wise whit the ampeg head but not all the way.
Anyone who´ll have some experience here on the board whit the HiWatt 200 vs OrangeADB 200?
Thanxx in advance.

I had an original DR201 4 X KT88 amp for years, wish I never sold it, I have no experience of the new products but you really need to test them all out properly as you already own a very superior sounding tube amp.
Have you thought about getting a Matamp because that would have a lot more in common with an original quality hand wired Orange Matamp 200 than todays pcb based ADB variant, come to think of it.
My Matamp is from 1968 sounds great and it still works fine.

Mr. Foxen · #8 04-20-2011, 04:10 PM

+1 on Matamp, if you are in the states Midwest Matamp has a GT200 in stock, that will sort you right out. If you are in the UK, make the pilgrimage to the factory.

AwkwardLoudness · #9 04-20-2011, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fourstringfrank

Anyone who´ll have some experience here on the board whit the HiWatt 200 vs OrangeADB 200?

Yes. The Hiwatt is cleaner and fuller sounding. The two have very different drive characteristics and pre-amp circuits. The Orange has more flavors of grunt and overdrive that the Hiwatt won't do, but Hiwatts take many bass OD pedals very well.

Neither amp is built all that great in terms or reliability at least if you're talking about new Hiwatt 200 amps. It would be more prudent to buy a vintage Hiwatt DR201, a new Reeves Custom 225 or 400 (USA), or a Max Weber MYWATT 200 or 400 (Europe). I like the above Matamp suggestion, but I haven't seen or played a new one in person.

Many new Hiwatt amps are poorly soldered and wired. New Orange amps have tube sockets soldered direct to a PCB board

. Both Orange and Hiwatt were great brands many years ago, but ownership changes resulted in lower standards.

AwkwardLoudness · #10 04-20-2011, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadds

A real Hiwatt is quite different from the Orange. It sounds rich, clear and every frequency is there. No grit is it's only "weakness". Now you can get it but at a volume that could kill small animals.
Listen to "Who Live at Leeds". P-Bass, Rotosounds and some Hiwatts. OMG!
Required listening for us bassists.
After hearing that, know that the Hiwatt can do fat low bottom too!

Live at Leeds (Deluxe Edition particularly) is awesome in every respect, the Ox's bass tones included. Entwistle was using multiple 100w Hiwatt CP103 heads through a mix of Hiwatt 4x15 and 4x12 cabs....not sure which speakers. The Who swapped speakers a whole lot...could be JBLs, Fanes, Goodmans, Celestions, or ???.
Those tones can be had a Hiwatt 200 though. Use a P-bass, turn the mids knob at 3:00, bass knob at 11:00, treble at noon, pre-amp volume knobs between noon and 3:00 (depending on the song) with channels linked, presence knob at 3:30, master volume dimed, several 15" speakers...JBL K140s work well.

dannylectro · #11 04-20-2011, 11:21 PM

If you like the V4B but want tighter low end, try a V4 (guitar amp). I used one for years in an arty punk band. It rocked.

Duke21 · #12 04-20-2011, 11:41 PM

I've tried the AD200 at the London Bass Show, very nice amp. Never seen a HiWatt in real, but i like the tones that Rutherford have on early Genesis, and Wettons Crimson tone!

You can just buy the Orange, and the Sansamp Leeds... You will then have both the Orange tone and the HiWatt with the Leeds on.

Have anybody heard Geddys tone on the current tour? He uses 2 AD200 now.

77PBass · #13 04-21-2011, 06:38 AM

From the Matamp website:

"Whether you're just starting out on tube amplifiers or know the business inside and out, Midwest Matamp offers a truly engaging dynamic with the once unabtainable Matamp Amplifiers of Huddersfield, W. Yorkshire UK."

"unabtainable"? Is that what gave it the magical sound?

Bassmec · #14 04-21-2011, 07:25 AM

I would look for the less heralded amps from those days.
like if you want a Marshall Major which is a 4 KT88 ultra linear amp buy a Simms Watts which is also ultra linear KT88.
If you want a Hiwatt dr201 4 KT88 buy a sound city 200.
If you prefer the sound of the 6 X EL34 Hiwatt Dr 201 variant, buy a Roost 150 or sound city 120 or carlesbro 200.
There is so little real difference between the basic sounds because they are just very slightly different component values interspersed between the exact same valves and transformers.
Like you don't have to change more than I pot value and a couple of cap values to make a Roost sound exactly like a
hiwatt.
http://photos1.hi5.com/0086/440/724/ddAJrP440724-02.jpg

fourstringfrank · #15 04-25-2011, 03:27 PM

Thanks for all the replys....Hmmm it seams like the Hiwatt head could be what Im after soundwise,I dont want a head whit too boomy low bass....wish I think the Ampeg has...shure it got loads of mids but it´s something whit ampegs that even if you are very moderate whit the low bass they have IMO a kinda boomy sound.
Maybe The ORANGE could still be a candidate...I going to testdrive a ADB200 to hear if I like it´s character.

Musicman20 · #16 04-25-2011, 03:36 PM

I tried an SVT VR, SVT CL, and eventually the Orange. The Orange won hands down. Such a simple amp but sounds good straight away! The grind is simple HEAVEN!

ebulakowski · #17 04-27-2011, 09:16 PM

I should start with this...I am an all around tube guy with guitars. But, with bass I have always gone solid state. Mostly a fingerstyle player. I have been a user of the epifani 502 for a couple of years, and in the last one a thunderfunk 550. with the ul410 cab. I had yet to find a tube amp that could be warm and clean as well as punch when needed. SVT could never get the warm low support I wanted and the orange broke up too early for the clean sound I wanted.

ALAS! Tuesday I get to pick up a '76 HIWATT. it has that tube magic I love, LOTS of clean headroom and If I want I can kick in my ebs valvedrive for a little grit. Give them a look.

I would also not overlook the eden e300t (wtb300v). Amazing features and tone stack and they can had for 600-750 in the used market. 300w and self serviceable tube biasing. As a new for member I might get flack for this one, but It impressed me more than the orange. I feel the SVT demands pick playing. Are any SVT users fingerstyle players?