Orange Isobaric Cabs, SP212, SP410 questions

[ishouldbeking]

(did a search, found some info, but not enough to shut me up, haha)

In my quest for the perfect downsized cab to take on tour, I just stumbled across these Orange cabs, which have definitely piqued my interest. The fact that they seem to generally favor an old-school tone (what with no tweeters), the overall design aesthetic (gotta love Orange), and the diminutive size seem to put them in a category all their own.

I'm curious how they stack up to normal cabs in the tone and volume department. Currently using a sealed 610 which is more than overkill for the majority of gigs i tend to play, and I've used 410's quite a bit. So accepting that a smaller cab will obviously not be as loud as what my current rig is capable of, how would you say the SP212 and SP410 stack up next to, say, your average 410? And generally speaking, any comments or insights into either cab are very welcome.

[billfitzmaurice]

An isobaric cab loaded with two drivers has the same sensitivity, output and response capability of a standard style cab loaded with one driver.

[silky smoove]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

An isobaric cab loaded with two drivers has the same sensitivity, output and response capability of a standard style cab loaded with one driver.

So what's the point then? Seems like you're basically using twice the number of drivers, and no doubt more complicated cabinet construction to achieve something that could be done with less drivers, less wood, less cost, etc....??? What am I missing?

[rpsands]

You extend the low end rolloff quite a bit, without taking up much more space. Basically, it's a way of using money to cheat Hoffman a little bit.

Edit: Clarifying some, my understanding is that you can get the low end of one driver in a much smaller box. I read something recently about it essentially lowering the driver VAS. Also, I am not sure but I think it doubles your power handling while maintaining the same sensitivity. I think there is some effect on distortion as well, but not sure about that.

So what Bill didn't say is that if you take a standard driver and stuff it in a tiny box for the driver (say you put a 3015Lf in a 2cf box) it will perform abominably, but if you stuff two 3015Lfs isobaric into a 2.2cf box, it'd perform as well as one 3015LF in a 4cf box. Or thereabouts. I *think*.

[greenboy]

Been quite a few threads about this already, especially after Orange announced. It's got a lot less pros than it does cons, especially given the state of amplifier and driver design.

[Spinal Tapper]

I dunno, but they're not cheap - about $1000 for the Iso 4x10 IIRC

[Petebass]

Originally Posted by ishouldbeking

I'm curious how they stack up to normal cabs in the tone and volume department. .........how would you say the SP212 and SP410 stack up next to, say, your average 410?.

What Bill said. Think of the isobaric 410 as a 210, and the isobaric 2x12 as a 1x12.... with small enclosures.

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by Spinal Tapper

I dunno, but they're not cheap - about $1000 for the Iso 4x10 IIRC

I figure they'll sell some for awhile based on the novelty alone, but in the long run unless the voicing is really magical, people will migrate to more practical ways to achieve their SPL and tone goals.

[rpsands]

Leprechauns!

[ishouldbeking]

Ahh, and there's the rub. The few threads I had read were of folks who actually really liked them, but no one got super specific.

So out of curiosity... does anyone think either of these cabs would work well as a standalone for an indie rock band? Doesn't have to get super loud, just compete with a fairly loud drummer, two guitarists with 1x12 combos (AC-15, Rivera Pubster), keys, and vox. Having never really explored the world of 12's, i'm not sure what to expect. I play ric-with-a-pick through a VT bass for a grindy classic rock type of sound.

[rpsands]

Well, sure, but not as well as something a lot cheaper and lighter and louder.

[ishouldbeking]

Originally Posted by rpsands

Well, sure, but not as well as something a lot cheaper and lighter and louder.

Such as? I'm not afraid to derail my own thread...

No but seriously, I've tossed around the idea of 210's and 112's as a standalone for a rock band, but most on here have been dismissive that it would get loud or low enough to compete with guitar and drums. That was why these "magical" cabinets looked so appealing. Given I don't need anything ultra deep, just some reasonable low mids to get that vintage punch.

[ishouldbeking]

Judging by the power rating of the orange 410 -- 1200 watts at 8 ohms -- it almost seems like these cabs would work for someone with a very high powered rig. Like, if you could pump enough juice into them, which it seems like they could handle, you might compete volume wise with some larger cabs. Just seems funny coming from the company most famous for their 200 watt tube head, when these might theoretically make more sense for someone with a pre/power type setup.

[rpsands]

I wouldn't hesitate to use a fEarful 12/6 for the band you describe as long as you have PA support when the drums are mic'd. As long as you have enough watts to hit it, it would more than suffice for stage volume in about any situation I can imagine, and most room volume situations where the kickdrum is not mic'd (and many where it is).

If you want to fill a room and compete with a mic'd kick drum and 2x18 subs, I don't think any 2x10/1x12 sized cabinet will do it.

You'd want 500w @ 8 ohms + .

Another option that comes in about the size of a 2x10 is a kappalite 3015 in a 2.8cf box tuned to ~50hz.

[Crockettnj]

Originally Posted by rpsands

Well, sure, but not as well as something a lot cheaper and lighter and louder.

That response kills me!

[rpsands]

Originally Posted by ishouldbeking

Judging by the power rating of the orange 410 -- 1200 watts at 8 ohms -- it almost seems like these cabs would work for someone with a very high powered rig. Like, if you could pump enough juice into them, which it seems like they could handle, you might compete volume wise with some larger cabs. Just seems funny coming from the company most famous for their 200 watt tube head, when these might theoretically make more sense for someone with a pre/power type setup.

If you have that many wattsw @ 8 ohms to throw at something you can do a lot better. A fEarful 1x15/6 will get louder, go lower, and not asplode the port.

I don't know if isobaric cabs are that different but the port on that 4x10 is so small I seriously doubt it would be silent with 1200w @ 8 ohms (Of course, your drivers would almost certainly be fragged from over-excursion by then anyway).

[lomo]

So does the passive radiator in a Walkabout cab serve a similar purpose to the 2nd driver in one of these isobaric jobs (larger effective box size)?

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by lomo

So does the passive radiator in a Walkabout cab serve a similar purpose to the 2nd driver in one of these isobaric jobs (larger effective box size)?

No, a passive radiator serves the same function as a port.

[Petebass]

Originally Posted by lomo

So does the passive radiator in a Walkabout cab serve a similar purpose to the 2nd driver in one of these isobaric jobs (larger effective box size)?

No the passive radiator basically does the job of a port. You'll usually find them used on small cabinets when the required port would be so long it wouldn't fit inside the cab.

[lomo]

Originally Posted by Petebass

No the passive radiator basically does the job of a port. You'll usually find them used on small cabinets when the required port would be so long it wouldn't fit inside the cab.

Thanks.