Orange Isobaric (Smart Power) cabs dispersion

Thylacine Dream · #1 10-11-2011, 02:40 PM

I've been reading a lot about dispersion lately and was curious how the one-behind-the-other speaker configuration in these fared and if there were any other problems with them. Thanks physics geniuses!

tombowlus · #2 10-11-2011, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thylacine Dream

I've been reading a lot about dispersion lately and was curious how the one-behind-the-other speaker configuration in these fared and if there were any other problems with them. Thanks physics geniuses!

West tested the SP210 and SP212 in issue #6, and their off-axis performance was pretty good.

will33 · #3 10-11-2011, 02:45 PM

Dispersion would be the same as any other cab with the front speaker(s) alignment. The isobaric design re-enforces the lows.

Thylacine Dream · #4 10-11-2011, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

Dispersion would be the same as any other cab with the front speaker(s) alignment. The isobaric design re-enforces the lows.

And what exactly is the front speaker(s) alignment? Thanks tons tom, that review's really informative

will33 · #5 10-11-2011, 03:01 PM

For example a regular 110 or 112 cab, the dispersion would be the same as that.

BassmanPaul · #6 10-11-2011, 08:55 PM

Thing is with these cabinets that you get a smaller cabinet but twice the driver weight. Add to that that the output from the cabs will only be around that of half the installed drivers. A 4x10 will get you the output of a 2x10.

Thylacine Dream · #7 10-11-2011, 10:00 PM

Oh okay. Yeah, I was reading that in the review, Paul, and I'm certainly glad I did. I guess they're better suited to recording and/or those with more money than myself. Thanks all!

Thylacine Dream · #8 10-11-2011, 10:06 PM

Different question, but maybe I can get it answered here rather than start a new thread:
If I were to vertically stack 2 Avatar 2x10s, which have the tweeter between the speakers, would it make more sense to have the tweeters lined up with one another so that they are closer to, or rather, farther away from the drums and/or other players' amps and why?

will33 · #9 10-11-2011, 10:22 PM

Don't know that it'd make much difference. Although with them closer to the drummer, he MIGHT catch a little more attack from your notes, stay locked in better....maybe. In cabs with mid drivers I like them to be on the drummers side of the cab. He actually can hear those frequencies better from a little "wrap around" the side of the cab. The sound doesn't actually wrap around but he can hear more of the edge of the mids radiation pattern than if it's across the cab from him.

Thylacine Dream · #10 10-11-2011, 10:54 PM

Hm, I was thinking from the audience's perspective, but it's probably more important that the band get an edge than that I get an edge. Thanks, man

will33 · #11 10-11-2011, 11:05 PM

From the audience perspective there's no difference. The sound from the woofers and tweeter is all summed together by the time it's just a few feet or less in front of the cab. You can experiment with that yourself. When your ear is 6" or so from the cab you can hear different frequencies coming from different sources. You don't have to get very far away before you can't hear and pinpoint the different sources anymore and it becomes mixed together as one cohesive sound.

Thylacine Dream · #12 10-11-2011, 11:15 PM

Ah, well I'm OCD so I still appreciate you telling me the wraparound thing that'll give me the slightest edge

will33 · #13 10-11-2011, 11:32 PM

I should add that the little listening experiment in my previous post is most revealing if you do it with your eyes shut. Your brain WILL automatically look at the small speaker when it hears high sounds.

walterw · #14 10-12-2011, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

Thing is with these cabinets that you get a smaller cabinet but twice the driver weight. Add to that that the output from the cabs will only be around that of half the installed drivers. A 4x10 will get you the output of a 2x10.

yeah, my impression of the little 10+10 orange box was that you got the size and volume output of a single 10 cab with the low end and power-handling of a 2x10.

lug · #15 10-12-2011, 08:29 AM

In theory an isobaric design let's you get the same freq response out of a cab 1/2 the size of a "normal" setup. Upside, much smaller cab, downside, you have to pay for 2 drivers and added weight but still get the same power level as one driver. Expensive way to shrink a cab, that's why you don't see a lot of manufacturers use this technique. I always felt that the use of neo speakers could lead to fairly decent sounding and weighing micro-cabs. but will still only for those with the greenbacks!

tombowlus · #16 10-12-2011, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lug

In theory an isobaric design let's you get the same freq response out of a cab 1/2 the size of a "normal" setup. Upside, much smaller cab, downside, you have to pay for 2 drivers and added weight but still get the same power level as one driver. Expensive way to shrink a cab, that's why you don't see a lot of manufacturers use this technique. I always felt that the use of neo speakers could lead to fairly decent sounding and weighing micro-cabs. but will still only for those with the greenbacks!

Keep in mind, with the isobaric design, you do get the power handling of all of the drivers. You only get the output level of half of them.

lug · #17 10-13-2011, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombowlus

Keep in mind, with the isobaric design, you do get the power handling of all of the drivers. You only get the output level of half of them.

Yep, poor wording on my part. Output level a much better term, less confusing.

seamonkey · #18 10-13-2011, 12:04 PM

Isobaric arrangement is really meant for lows.
Nobody in HiFi ever use one for Midrange, and there is a big lack of information on using them this way.

For subs, Wikipedia clears up a lot of the confusion. Nothing is mentioned if you venture into midrange frequencies.

I could imagine the cones don't act like pistons on higher midrange and this may have some effect. The measurements would say it all. If Bass Gear Magazine measured it and publish polar charts then it is what it is.

IMHO - this cab should be looked at like a black box with frequency and dispersion measurements, including weight, size, sensitivity, and Max SPL.

KJung · #19 10-13-2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombowlus

Keep in mind, with the isobaric design, you do get the power handling of all of the drivers. You only get the output level of half of them.

Interesting stuff. I guess, like everyone says, there is no free lunch.

From literally zero knowledge about this, it seems like the performance of this design is a bit like the super duty, high xmax drivers. It takes more power to get them to full volume (assuming that 'power handling' translates into 'needing more power'.... might be wrong there), and you can get a lot more bottom than you would expect out of a little box, but the absolute max volume output is still somewhat reduced due to the low end frequencies being extended.

If that is the case (and it surely might not be... just interested in the discussion), this seems like a kind of 'old fashioned' way to get there, given the frequency response of some of the newer drivers out there, resulting it more weight due to the double drivers, baffle boards, etc.

Interesting though, and a few of my buddies who have played these cabs were impressed with the tone.

billfitzmaurice · #20 10-13-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thylacine Dream

Different question, but maybe I can get it answered here rather than start a new thread:
If I were to vertically stack 2 Avatar 2x10s, which have the tweeter between the speakers, would it make more sense to have the tweeters lined up with one another so that they are closer to, or rather, farther away from the drums and/or other players' amps and why?

Unless the cab is pointed at the drummer he won't hear anything from the tweeters. If he has difficulties hearing you rotate the lower cab to aim at him, leave the upper cab aiming out at you and the audience.