Orange Terror Bass 500 Exploded!

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by BbbyBld

There are 6 things I can think of that will make a capacitor fail like that:

1. It's installed backwards. This would usually cause an instant failure.

2. Ripple current too high (more capacitance needed or better quality cap needed). This usually happens over time.

3. Shorted rectifier, so the cap was exposed to AC. This would be caused by an overload condition. If the cap is in a tube power supply circuit, could be a bad tube with a heater to cathode/plate short for example.

4. Extreme over voltage. I'm not familiar with the design, but could also because of a shorted tube if that cap is for the heater supply.

5. Loss of transformer center tap connection in the case of a split winding. Again, I'm not familiar with the design, but this can also happen if the circuit board depends on a chassis ground and a screw wasn't tight enough, or there was paint on the chassis where there shouldn't have been.

6. Internal transformer short. This can develop if a high voltage winding is left unloaded, specifically in the case of a plate standby and/or there is insufficient insulation between transformer windings.

Anyway, I've seen that type of failure in all of those cases on various electronic devices.

could any of those conditions be brought on by a shorted speaker cable?

[countrybass007]

I've been using one since they first came out, and have nothing but good things to say about it. Hope the third one "is" the charm.

[geoff_in_nc]

Originally Posted by BbbyBld

There are 6 things I can think of that will make a capacitor fail like that:

1. It's installed backwards. This would usually cause an instant failure.

2. Ripple current too high (more capacitance needed or better quality cap needed). This usually happens over time.

3. Shorted rectifier, so the cap was exposed to AC. This would be caused by an overload condition. If the cap is in a tube power supply circuit, could be a bad tube with a heater to cathode/plate short for example.

4. Extreme over voltage. I'm not familiar with the design, but could also because of a shorted tube if that cap is for the heater supply.

5. Loss of transformer center tap connection in the case of a split winding. Again, I'm not familiar with the design, but this can also happen if the circuit board depends on a chassis ground and a screw wasn't tight enough, or there was paint on the chassis where there shouldn't have been.

6. Internal transformer short. This can develop if a high voltage winding is left unloaded, specifically in the case of a plate standby and/or there is insufficient insulation between transformer windings.

Anyway, I've seen that type of failure in all of those cases on various electronic devices.

I'm going to suggest another fail mode. Orange's factory bought caps that were fakes. Probably someone bought a cheaper, lower spec'ed cap and put a wrapper on it saying it was the cap Orange wanted. If you're lucky it will last a bit then die because it can't perform as required. This could explain why earlier amps work fine, but recently some are dying young... the factory bought real parts before, but another pile of caps came in and they happened to be fakes.

Counterfeit parts are a HUGE problem overall in the electronics industry nowadays. If you're buying from anyone other than the original part manufacturer... buyer beware.

[WingKL]

Sunovabitch electronics counterfeiters should be caught, prosecuted and put away. I've had more than 3 pieces of Chinese electronics fail due to crap caps. I think those crappy caps are the reason why so much electronics fail and why CFL lamps get such a bad rap.

[sincitydevil]

Well...here's a new addition to the continuing saga of Orange Terror Bass 500 capacitors exploding.

The other night as I was getting ready to rehearse I turned my amp on, put it into standby to warm up, then it went 'POP' like a starters pistol and smoke started to pour out of it. The power light was still on but I immediately shut it off.

Upon inspection (removing the hood and having a look inside) it could clearly be seen that a capacitor had in fact exploded inside the unit. (see the dark blue capacitor and fuzzy looking exploded thing in the attached photo).

My question is....why is Orange using sub-par capacitors that are now known to be defective and exploding inside these Bass Terror units?

I've had my unit for over a year now and things were running smoothly until now... I guess it's just a matter of time for all Bass Terror owners...be aware.

PS: The larger light blue capacitor in the photo is the replacement capacitor for the amp. The smaller dark blue one is the defective cap cover and of course the fuzzy thing is the exploded capacitor.

[godofthunder59]

This happened with mine I contacted Orange and they were great. They sent me a return label so I shipped it off, they were either going to repair or replace it. I got it back two weeks later they fixed it and it has been fine ever since. I LOVE my Orange TB!

[Will Kelly]

I hope you guys are letting Orange know whats going on.

[BogeyBass]

Well it looks like orange engineers need to go back to school.

sorry dude.

if it happened once will happen again, time to get rid of the amp or replace any other cap that is used for the power supply and tube heaters. Any cap in the low voltage signal chain is probably still ok.

[Mr. Foxen]

Originally Posted by sincitydevil

My question is....why is Orange using sub-par capacitors that are now known to be defective and exploding inside these Bass Terror units?

Cheaper that way.

[Jawbone]

These aren't the prized jewels of the Orange line. They were meant to goble up some of the Class D craziness out there. They entered the market late so they had to rushed their design and specification. With all the other products out there they were probably threaten with allocation shortages for good parts and settled for sub-standard replacements to get the product to the market. Orange is not know for their micro S/S amps. They're a great all tube amp company however.

I'd give up at this point (three strikes and you're out) and get my money back -if that's at all possible since it's been a year. If you really want class D I'd go for a more reputable line, ie, GB or GK. If you're going to try and sell it after they fix it again your best bet is ebay since the TBers know your story.

[Calaverasgrande]

Originally Posted by B-string

Definitely an electrolytic cap. Seen failures similar with Panasonic. Stopped buying them as replacements.

Ibeen using Panasonics in most of my stuff since one of Eddie Celetti's (sp?)articles in EM hipped me to them back in the 90's.
All those power supplies and preamps are still good!
There are of course numerous fake Panasonic caps out there. AS has been said elsewhere in this thread, it is a big problem in electronics now.
I've bought "switchcraft plugs and jacks that were such poor quality metal I could bend them with my bare hands.
I've gotten resistors that didn't pass any current at all.
LEDs that burned out in a week.
(remember when LEDs weren't supposed to burn out for a hundred years?)

[AltGrendel]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

That's a capacitor I think. It might be a bad run surfacing. It's been awhile since Orange hit the headlines.

+1

[craig.p]

I was going to say:

This may not be a design flaw. It might be a manufacturing flaw -- something as simple as someone in the board shop loading a tube of 16V electrolytics instead of the correct 25V ones. We may never know the answer. All I'm saying is that circuit is probably not rocket science and could probably be designed correctly by a first-year tech student. Also, no engineer is going to sign off on a design that will eventually get him sacked.

Except, just before I hit Submit, I went back to the pics of the 16V and 25V caps. The lead spacing is different, which means the 16V one never would have made it through the insertion process.

Now, go back to the earlier shot of the blown out cap and look at the 63V pair above. Don't they look undersized compared to the white component outlines?

My other question is, if that 3300/16 is the same as the one in the earlier pic, where are they going to find the board real estate to substitute the larger-diameter (25V) one?

[Mr. Foxen]

Plenty of different sized and shaped caps of equivalent values about.

Originally Posted by Jawbone

Orange is not know for their micro S/S amps. They're a great all tube amp company however.
.

The Orange Terror bass is the Orange product I recommend most highly.

[B-string]

Originally Posted by Jawbone

These aren't the prized jewels of the Orange line. They were meant to goble up some of the Class D craziness out there. They entered the market late so they had to rushed their design and specification. With all the other products out there they were probably threaten with allocation shortages for good parts and settled for sub-standard replacements to get the product to the market. Orange is not know for their micro S/S amps. They're a great all tube amp company however.

I'd give up at this point (three strikes and you're out) and get my money back -if that's at all possible since it's been a year. If you really want class D I'd go for a more reputable line, ie, GB or GK. If you're going to try and sell it after they fix it again your best bet is ebay since the TBers know your story.

Well that would speak volumes to their company ethic?

[rpsands]

Hold on a second.

The Orange terror bass 500 tests amazingly well compared to other class D from a power perspective - amazingly well. 500w @ 8 ohms is something very few other class D heads can pull off, and the burst of up to 1000 watts at 4 ohms is likewise very impressive.

The tube PRE section is also just really solid. The EQ is basic, but the sound comes out very tubey with a big tonal range from clean tube to dirty.

Orange definitely brought a lot of unique things to the class D market imho.

[adamafurious]

+1
Love mine & will buy another if this one goes.
Currently my favorite amp. And I'm no engineer but, if what you're saying about them rushing the design is true, I have even more respect for Orange.

[B-string]

Rushing a failing product into the world commands respect? That's new and different (if in fact that is what is going on here).

[adamafurious]

Umm...no. And my sympaties to the the OP & others having troubles. But obviously you're taking quite a leap by calling this a "failing product." What with all of the satisfied Orange customers, all over the world and here on TB (the toughest critics, I'd think you'd agree) including myself. All I'm saying is, if they did do it under a rush, I'm impressed.

[Downunderwonder]

It would be really great if someone from Orange would come on and announce it was all under control.