Pair of Avatar B210s or B212s???

[TigerInATrance]

I can't decide which way to go, so I've done a bunch of reading and I'm still at a loss. I think I'm going to go with the ceramic version of either cab because I don't really care about shaving weight, but if there's a SONIC reason to go with the Neo version, let me know.

So, what am I trying to get out of the cab?? Well, I've got a Carvin BX1500 amp and an EMC DC loaded 6 string bass that I run with either Half Rounds or Chromes and play with a pick, and I tend to roll off the highs a bit and boost the low mids and bass.

I've currently got an Ampeg PR410HLF which is decent, but too heavy (2 ceramic Avatar 212s will be about the same weight) and a bit too loose on the low end, and 2 Carvin BRX10.2s that are great cabs, but not quite what I was after. I can't put my finger on why, but it feels like I'm getting a sound more suited to slap and pop.

Some of the cabs that I've really liked are the Eden 410xlt and the Aguilar DB212 (which is what got me thinking about the Avatar 212.)

So let me know... I want to get in before the Free Shipping goes away, so I'll be moving on this soon.

Thanks!!!!

[Phlipper]

I vote for a pair of B212s. My single B212 has been killing. Great 'hi-fi' tone and handles everything my head throws at it. Totally carries a loud classic rock band unmic'd. A second one on the stack will let me do the same for outdoor shows.

[iualum]

Hmmm...a modular 410, or a modular 412 for an extra 80 clams. I'd do the 412, without question.

But if you can swing the dimensions & weights, & you aren't thinking about leaving half the modular setup in one place & the other half in another, the actual 410 or 412 represents a better value.

[vickde]

I have 2 SB112s and a BRX10.2. If the B212 sounds anything like the SB112, IMO the Avatars are fuller, lower, and more hi-fi sounding than the Carvin, which seems tighter and more focused in the mid-range. My opinions are based on running a LMIII through both. I like the Carvin better for rock - the mids really cut through the drums, and the Avatars better for blues and country because of the heavier bottom end. All IMO IME, of course.

[SteveHeissner]

One of my better sounding rigs was an Avatar 212 with a 210 stacked on top. Wish I still had it. However, if you are set on duplicate cabs of the same size then I'd go for two 212's.

[TigerInATrance]

Originally Posted by vickde

I have 2 SB112s and a BRX10.2. If the B212 sounds anything like the SB112, IMO the Avatars are fuller, lower, and more hi-fi sounding than the Carvin, which seems tighter and more focused in the mid-range. My opinions are based on running a LMIII through both. I like the Carvin better for rock - the mids really cut through the drums, and the Avatars better for blues and country because of the heavier bottom end. All IMO IME, of course.

That is exactly what I'm hearing with the Carvins I've got... And exactly what I'm looking for out of the Avatars, so this is welcome news. I also came across a review in the last hour that specifically ran a B212 against a 410xlt and the reviewer found them to get a similar flavor, which is also good news.

[Phlipper]

Originally Posted by TigerInATrance

That is exactly what I'm hearing with the Carvins I've got... And exactly what I'm looking for out of the Avatars, so this is welcome news. I also came across a review in the last hour that specifically ran a B212 against a 410xlt and the reviewer found them to get a similar flavor, which is also good news.

That was me. I guess I would say it was a somewhat similar flavor since the Avatar could be dialed in to duplicate anything dialed in on the Eden, at similar volume levels. If that makes sense? Both very 'hi-fi'. With the tone controls on the basses dialed back both had that smooth, 'round', yet punchy tone that stayed very articulate. If anything was different, at higher volumes perhaps the 410 yields more upper mids, while the B212 maintains a rounder, thumpier, 'bassier' tone similar to how good 15" cabs do. But stayed clear and articulate, you could easily tell which note I was on even with tons of bass rolled in (not that I would ever play thay way). I love 'em for that. It's like they have the punch of a 10" cab but also have the warm, lower thump of a 15.

[TigerInATrance]

Originally Posted by Phlipper

That was me. I guess I would say it was a somewhat similar flavor since the Avatar could be dialed in to duplicate anything dialed in on the Eden, at similar volume levels. If that makes sense? Both very 'hi-fi'. With the tone controls on the basses dialed back both had that smooth, 'round', yet punchy tone that stayed very articulate. If anything was different, at higher volumes perhaps the 410 yields more upper mids, while the B212 maintains a rounder, thumpier, 'bassier' tone similar to how good 15" cabs do. But stayed clear and articulate, you could easily tell which note I was on even with tons of bass rolled in (not that I would ever play thay way). I love 'em for that. It's like they have the punch of a 10" cab but also have the warm, lower thump of a 15.

Thanks for jumping in... That sounds like exactly the thing I'm looking for. Even down to the upper mids on the Eden, which is something I felt like I had to EQ out. I do appreciate it since it's impossible to try the Avatars out. It's good to be able to get a comparison.

My mind is made up... B212s it is.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by TigerInATrance

My mind is made up... B212s it is.

I think you made the right call...

By all accounts, the Avatar B210s are tighter & brighter than the B212s, and probably lie somewhere between the Carvin BRX cabs and the Avatar B212s, tonally speaking. But if it's low-mid muscle you want, with plenty of phat, as well as good clarity, the Avatar B212s should do the trick...

MM

[TigerInATrance]

Originally Posted by Phlipper

A second one on the stack will let me do the same for outdoor shows.

I breezed past this part earlier and it makes me rethink the second cab, at least initially. I can't imagine what situation I'd need that much volume for at this point...

[Phlipper]

Originally Posted by SteveHeissner

One of my better sounding rigs was an Avatar 212 with a 210 stacked on top. Wish I still had it. However, if you are set on duplicate cabs of the same size then I'd go for two 212's.

We were talking about this a couple weeks ago, having seen a lot of pics of Avatar B210s on top of B212s. Of course, most feel it's not worth risking a sound/phase/moon current mismatch of speaker sizes or issues with power handling/dispersion. I still haven't heard an Avatar rig like this, but I'd imagine there's got to be something to it.

What did you like about this setup? What did the 210 bring to the party? If you've played an Avatar 2 x B212 how was this rig different?

I'd love to have a 210 to pull off for practices out of town, but can't afford a second B212 and a B210.

[Phlipper]

Originally Posted by TigerInATrance

I breezed past this part earlier and it makes me rethink the second cab, at least initially. I can't imagine what situation I'd need that much volume for at this point...

I have always played a lot of outdoor shows in the Spring and Summer, sometimes on pretty large stages and sometimes with piss-poor PA or really goofy FOH guys. And a dual B212 rig gives me 700 watts at 2 ohms and would ensure I come thru loud and clear. I'd run one on either side of the drum riser, like the bassist I played with most recently, to ensure everyone is hearing me on stage. And I'd never have to worry about being heard in the mix by the crowd, either.

Other than that, the single B212 and 500 watts is plenty. I've now played it unmic'd with a too loud country band(guitarist is the kind I always tried not to be ... midrange smothered with too many pedals so he has to run his master wide open to be heard) and with an uber loud classic rock act, and volume/cutting thru definitely was not an issue.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by Phlipper

I'd run one on either side of the drum riser, like the bassist I played with most recently, to ensure everyone is hearing me on stage. And I'd never have to worry about being heard in the mix by the crowd, either.

FWIW, spreading cabs around the stage laterally is not considered a sonic "best practice" for the bass from a sound dispersion standpoint. It's completely counterintuitive, I know. But stacking the cabs vertically, from a single point on the stage, is always the best way to achieve optimum horizontal dispersion.

(The opposite is also true...but then, who ever plays a room that's like 100 feet wide and 500 feet tall? )

MM

[Phlipper]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

FWIW, spreading cabs around the stage laterally is not considered a sonic "best practice" for the bass from a sound dispersion standpoint. It's completely counterintuitive, I know. But stacking the cabs vertically, from a single point on the stage, is always the best way to achieve optimum horizontal dispersion.

(The opposite is also true...but then, who ever plays a room that's like 100 feet wide and 500 feet tall? )

MM

We found that in some of the small-to-medium places we play we didn't need to lug the whole PA around (we went overboard on PA). Rather we just mic the vocals and the kick drum. And when we do we liked having bass cabs on either side of the drums. Smaller clubs my bass player even used a pair of PV Basic 112s this way and it worked perfectly. So larger outdoor stages where we sometimes have crappy PA support or Soundman Bubba who brought his church's PA and is clueless, we know we can always rig something useable up for the crowd and for stage monitoring this way. Always keeps the drummer happy, I can hear the bass clearly, and we don't have to haggle with Bubba about the monitors. Redneck Engineering at its' finest.

We're strictly small time and rarely have the luxury of a good FOH guy (who is probably the bartender and thinks he's a sound guy ), or sometimes even decent PA unless we bring ours.

[rmars]

If you like the Eden 410XLT or the DB212 I wouldn't go with the B210. Kind of the polar opposite to my ear. I gigged a pair of B210's for a few years. Not really fond of how Avatar does the extended X-max, to me it gives up more than it gains. Don't care for the form factor of the B212. Maybe check out a a GB Neox 212. Very little play time on one but it seemed to have a nice mid thing going on.... different than the 410xlt or the DB212 but still kind of a mid forward cab and it had a lot of volume for the size.