particle board?

gbarchus · #1 12-01-2010, 05:27 AM

Are there any inherently bad properties in particle board that make it unsuitable for speaker cabinets? I know some manufacturers use it. Is it just to cut costs?

Gale

john m · #2 12-01-2010, 05:32 AM

weight

T-Bird · #3 12-01-2010, 05:38 AM

Hi.

Moisture resistance.

Material thickness/rigidity ratio.

Regards
Sam

gbarchus · #4 12-01-2010, 06:03 AM

A lot of hi-fi speaker manufacturers use it. Of course, the cabinets are not usually moved around a lot. And when they are, they are susceptible to damage. But, I'm curious about sonic quality.

Rob22315 · #5 12-01-2010, 06:16 AM

MDF is considered a better material for speakers than particle board. It has the same density as particle board but is much less crumbly. Holds fasteners better too but you still need to be careful - it's still not as strong as wood. It has a smoother surface so it will probably be easier to fasten self-stick covering material too.

hover · #6 12-01-2010, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob22315

MDF is considered a better material for speakers than particle board. It has the same density as particle board but is much less crumbly.

Yes, but neither have much in the way of shock resistance. Not the best choice for a cab you're gonna move often...OSB, at the minimum, for a decent cab.

Rob22315 · #7 12-01-2010, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hover

Yes, but neither have much in the way of shock resistance. Not the best choice for a cab you're gonna move often...OSB, at the minimum, for a decent cab.

True, good advice.

chadds · #8 12-01-2010, 06:24 AM

It's called "wish wood".

billfitzmaurice · #9 12-01-2010, 06:33 AM

Quote:

I know some manufacturers use it. Is it just to cut costs?

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hover

Yes, but neither have much in the way of shock resistance. Not the best choice for a cab you're gonna move often...OSB, at the minimum, for a decent cab.

OSB is totally unsuited to speaker cabs, lacking in strength, structural integrity, workability and ease of applying a finish. MDF is OK for home hi-fi, where weight and strength aren't an issue, and it takes a veneer well. Particle board is similar to MDF but is brittle, and harder to work with.
The best material for bass speakers is plywood. The best designed cabs use well braced 1/2" plywood, for maximum strength with minimal weight. Most commercial cabs use 3/4" plywood, with minimal bracing, if any. They do so because it's less expensive than to pay the labor required to build well braced cabs from 1/2".

hover · #10 12-01-2010, 06:35 AM

Bill, as I said, at the minimum OSB, for structural considerations over the other materials listed. I agree it's not the best suited material, but I'm not off base here. But yes, BB Ply is the best choice.

I used to source wood for a pretty major PA speaker company, and OEM supplied raw cabinets for 2 pretty prominent players in the bass amplification market, I know what I'm talking about, thanks.

billfitzmaurice · #11 12-01-2010, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hover

Bill, as I said, at the minimum OSB, for structural considerations over the other materials listed. I agree it's not the best suited material, but I'm not off base here.

OSB has no structural advantage over MDF or particle board. Plywood will take a hit from an object, like another cab or amp or car bumper, with no damage, where that same object will go right through OSB. That's why OSB is not properly used for floors.
OSB was used by Ampeg for a time. That didn't make it right, it just made it cheap.

hover · #12 12-01-2010, 06:44 AM

Bill, I'm not disagreeing with you , you are preaching to the converted. I'm not trying to convince you OSB is superior to ply or a better alternative, but it is a tad bit more robust over particle board or MDF with shock from dropping or whatever. Sure, it will crush, but it is not going to split in half like MDF. It just simply wont. Not trying to mix words, just going off experience here, sorry if you do not find it credible...of course it weas a matter of price point to some. To others, it was their across-the-board choice for material.

And it wasn't just Ampeg, thanks.

PDGood · #13 12-01-2010, 06:51 AM

Getting back to the question of sonic quality - with cabinets, you're not really asking the cabinet itself to flex and move and become part of the sound. The goal is more to be a rigid carrier of sound waves. So sturdier is better. That's where you hear the term "tight" to describe a cabinet that feels really solid in its construction.

But because a lot of cabinets are transported, other factors such as weight become an important factor. That's why plywood is so popular - it's a great overall combination of strength, weight, and as someone pointed out - the ability to hold screws in place.

bgavin · #14 12-01-2010, 07:08 AM

MDF in 3/4" is heavy at 49 pounds per cubic foot, or 98 pounds per 4x8 sheet.
BB in 3/4" measures 39.8 ppcf on my beam balance scale.

MDF is inexpensive and very dimensionally stable with flat surfaces.
This makes it ideal for kitchen cabinets and such.
MDF is also ideal for prototyping speaker cab designs.

The MDF downsides are weight, toxic sawdust, and fast wear on saw blades.
MDF is much more water resistant than particle board.
I've tested this by leaving both MDF and BB out in the rain for a few years. Neither does very well.

Hauling 2x weekly a pair of 5.5 cubic feet sub cabs does wear down the corners. Especially without corner protectors.
MDF will no doubt shatter from impact much easier than BB.
I don't have roadies, and treat my cabs well, so I have never experienced this problem.

The weight of MDF really sux at load-out time.

billfitzmaurice · #15 12-01-2010, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDGood

- the ability to hold screws in place.

That's not really an issue. What holds cabs together is adhesive. Most cabs today are assembled using 18ga brads or staples, and their only purpose is to hold the parts together until the adhesive sets. From a manufacturing standpoint that makes MDF and particle board harder to work with, as their high density makes it more difficult to use light gauge fasteners, and heavier gauges tend to cause splitting.
Many home builders who don't have pneumatic shooters still use screws to hold the parts together while the adhesive sets, and then remove the screws afterwards, at least on the edges, so that they don't tear up the router bit used to round off the corners. 18 ga. brads make that an easier proposition too, as a carbide roundover bit goes through them like a hot knife through butter, suffering no damage in the process.

gbarchus · #16 12-01-2010, 07:14 AM

I put some JBL speakers in a pair of Yamaha 1X15 cabinets made of particle board (or MDF) and was wondering if it may be affecting the sound.

Gale

VTHacker · #17 12-01-2010, 07:30 AM

No idea about the sound of your cabs, sorry—but I can't quit staring at your bass. Gorgeous.

billfitzmaurice · #18 12-01-2010, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbarchus

I put some JBL speakers in a pair of Yamaha 1X15 cabinets made of particle board (or MDF) and was wondering if it may be affecting the sound.

The material of the cabinet alone has little to no bearing on the sound. It's not what you make it out of, it's how you make it. The disadvantage of MDF and particle board lies purely in being heavier and less durable than plywood.

JTE · #19 12-01-2010, 08:03 AM

Regarding the ability to hold screws in place. Whether or not the screws hold the cabinet together, they are used to fasten the input panel, corner protectors, mount the speaker, and sometimes hold the grille in place. Now I'd use T-nuts and bolts instead of wood screws for the speaker, but ya know how people are...

John

gbarchus · #20 12-01-2010, 08:49 AM

Thanks VTHacker,

AAAA quilted maple!

Gale