Pay a tech but amp is not repaired?

Axtman · #1 02-09-2011, 06:53 PM

I have a situation where a professional amp tech has been unable to repair two of my bass amp heads. He is frustrated because he has put a lot of time and effort into the amps. He has bought and replaced parts. He has not been able to get the amps working but still wants to get paid.

What do you think?

christw · #2 02-09-2011, 06:56 PM

Would you pay a contractor who started to build you a deck but gave up or a mechanic's shop that can't fix your car? I sure wouldn't. If he's a friend, I'd consider partial compensation (in case of tensions) but certainly not full cost for a failed repair.

elgecko · #3 02-09-2011, 06:59 PM

Sounds like "time and materials" work. Does the work order you signed guarantee that the amps will work when he's done with them?

S. Katz · #4 02-09-2011, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elgecko

Sounds like "time and materials" work. Does the work order you signed guarantee that the amps will work when he's done with them?

This.

If a bar owner hired your band in order to attract more patrons, any you played, but the owner didn't get any additional business, would you be OK with him not paying you?

Selta · #5 02-09-2011, 07:02 PM

It really depends on if you signed any kind of work order/contract to fix and what it says. If there's not one in place, then I wouldn't pay until it's fixed, but give him the opportunity to fix. Have him go into extreme detail on everything he's done and why, though, and don't be afraid to get a 2nd opinion based off of that.
Personal opinion here, but if this guy has had these amps for awhile and is just throwing parts at both of them, I'd start questioning his ability as a tech.

ranjam · #6 02-09-2011, 07:31 PM

That's a big can of worms. I do a lot of 'tech' work for friends, and I charge. However, if I can't fix the problem quickly, I certainly don't charge anything. If I ordered an expensive part, I reinstall the original part back inside, and hopefully use that expensive part somewhere else. Cheap parts; it's not worth ruining a good friendship.
Just a boring side story; a friend tried to get 'someone else' to fix his Marshall that was blowing fuses. The amp was taking forever to fix, and still the 'tech' couldn't solve the problem. So my friend said he would take his Marshall to someone else (me). Now he still gets a $200 bill for new tubes and a bag of blown fuses!

Every tech is different. You get to know yours, and hopefully have a good rapport and can avoid these situations. I fell no shame, and make sure you know up front, that if I can't fix your amp (or whatever) real quick, I don't want to be into it for a lot of time and effort, so you can take it somewhere else. No biggie. You haven't identified the heads, but I'll bet they're fairly complicated solid state circuits. No fun, unless you have a lot of service info and test equipment, and I mean more than a Fluke DVM.

Soverntear · #7 02-09-2011, 07:46 PM

at one point i had an old gorilla combo. its pot's were going in a bad way. so i took it to a local shop, they apparently couldn't get the pots in so i left town for a bit on buisness. when i came back the place had burned down and the guy skipped town.

long and short if its more then 2 weeks, get the amp back and tell him to hoop his forehead if he wants to be paid for an incomplete job. after all how can you verify that he has done anything if it is not fixed.

harrison_faulkn · #8 02-09-2011, 08:14 PM

I can tell you from managing a music store for the last 3 years, it is very common, and actually makes sense.

Our techs charge a bench fee for all electronics repairs. That fee either goes into the cost of the repair if it is approved, or it serves as paying the labor for the tech to diagnose the problem. We do it for 2 reasons: it takes longer to diagnose than repair, and it keeps from a tech spending 2 hours finding the one component that went bad and having the guy decline and replace it himself. Lots of people can solder, but the skill lies in troubleshooting.

Now, if he is charging you for all the work done, then that is not very fair. I would not pay more than his standard bench fee.

This reason is why we now have repair contracts

billfitzmaurice · #9 02-09-2011, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axtman

I have a situation where a professional amp tech has been unable to repair two of my bass amp heads.

What do you think?

I think you need to find another techie.
When I did amp work if I couldn't fix it I charged nothing. IMO if you take a job you get paid for completing it.

KramerBassFan · #10 02-09-2011, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

I think you need to find another techie.

+1

If its broken beyond repair, the parts cost more than the amp is worth, or he just isn't fixing it, then its time to move on.

Interceptor · #11 02-09-2011, 09:56 PM

This really boils my blood.

I've been a tech since Carter was elected. In my industry, I'm the last guy that gets called before the salvage company. I have NEVER charged for a diagnosis that ended up finding the thing was terminal or for something I just couldn't fix or for taking a second pass on a problem I didn't get the first time.

It is all about respecting the customer and value in the honor system.

I also do not have any trouble staying busy.

Ethics, integrity and compassion will make you more money over the long run than silly little gamesmanship.

Find a better tech.

T-Bird · #12 02-09-2011, 10:59 PM

Hi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axtman

I have a situation where a professional amp tech has been unable to repair two of my bass amp heads. He is frustrated because he has put a lot of time and effort into the amps. He has bought and replaced parts. He has not been able to get the amps working but still wants to get paid.

What do you think?

I think You're asking a lot from us and telling us nothing.

[vent/rant on]

For some reason people assume that us techs/repair persons in any walk of life are some kind of miracle workers, who can fix anything, and for a price that's a fraction of the price of a used item.

We are aslso expected to see through the "customers" lies and know instantly what it is that they're not telling us.

A lot of things in this throw-away-society of ours are un-repairable from the financial standpoint.
Every cheapo SS amp regardless of the brand or intended primary application falls into that category. As does most of the older motor vehicles.

If the customer wants to get it fixed, regardless of the cost, fine. That can be done.

Usually they tell us that they want the repair cost to be an exact amount of their choosing though, a figure that usually doesn't even cover the parts.

Those are the reasons that a lot of people who could help in keeping older gear and vehicles in use, are now refusing to do so, me included. There's really no point in doing the repairs based on the terms that the people who are often responsible for the damage in the first place set, expecting someone to just repair it. Cheap.

[vent/rant off]

Regards
Sam

craig.p · #13 02-10-2011, 05:45 AM

Don't know if anyone's mentioned this yet, but a tech should do a pre-assessment of the problem to determine whether it's within his range of skills (and his shop's range of test equipment) to fix. He should also know beforehand what parts he might need, whether or not he can actually get them, and what their lead times are. I think it's in these areas of up-front due diligence where lots of techs drop the ball and set themselves up for failure.

AverageWhiteBassist · #14 02-10-2011, 06:04 AM

The situation stinks, unfortunately someone loses out. If it can be repaired, just not by him then he should be kind and do the minimal charge. If it turned out not to be repairable once on his bench, there isn't much he could have known. A working amp and non working amp look the same on the outside, they need the time to be taken apart, figured out what the problem is and a fix attempted. I have run into this with people I know, it's not a situation either party wants to be in, but it does happen time to time. Electronic repair is some of the most difficult to justify cost to customer at times. For example, a replacement jack on an amp costs less than $10, but the repair is usually $75. Why? Depending on amp it could seriously take 2 hours worth of unscrewing and re-screwing to get the thing back together, not the actual time of just the part replacement.

Growly Lytes · #15 02-10-2011, 06:29 AM

All very good points.But i think that the repair man should atleast give an idea of what your gonna be up against money wise.He cant just turn around & say look i had a go & couldnt fix it now you owe me.........wait man what about the damn amp that still not fixed.
You may have to speak with him again.

AverageWhiteBassist · #16 02-10-2011, 06:43 AM

In any sticky situation in life, you get further with honey than vinegar. Keep in mind he probably doesn't want to stick you with a bill and an unrepaired amp. I'm sure you can both be diplomatic and find some common ground, but as far as paying nothing, you might have to compromise on some payment for his time despite the results.

jgroh · #17 02-10-2011, 06:50 AM

This is a tough situation. As a business owner myself, you have to cover as much of your time as you can with billable hours. But, there are plenty of times I do things for customers that are "free" to keep a good relationship. But honestly, I wouldn't ask for payment until I get the project completed one way or another.

I'm guessing you wont get those amps back until you pay? (which is the real sticking point here) If it were me and we hadnt agreed to a "bench fee" before the work began like harrison_faulkn said, and I could get the amps back, I wouldnt pay for anything but parts.

1958Bassman · #18 02-10-2011, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axtman

I have a situation where a professional amp tech has been unable to repair two of my bass amp heads. He is frustrated because he has put a lot of time and effort into the amps. He has bought and replaced parts. He has not been able to get the amps working but still wants to get paid.

What do you think?

If they still don't work, he hasn't finished the job. Sounds like he's in over his head- what kind of amps are they?

klejst · #19 02-10-2011, 06:57 AM

Have you tried sending the damaged items into the manufacturer for the repairs? I agree though if the repairs cost more than the items themselves then it is simply not worth it unless it has some soft of personal value to you or just is a amazing piece of equipment.

joshwilkesbooth · #20 02-10-2011, 08:47 AM

imo: You should pay his bench fee without question, and then work out a reasonable split for his labor and parts costs.