Phil Jones cabinets

Florox · #1 07-01-2010, 11:30 AM

I have been observing these cabs and found them to be very interesting, but also, it's the main feature what worries me! Seeing so many small speakers put horizontally just screams Bad Case of Comb Filtering. Do these cabs have horrible comb filtering? It would seem so to me at least, but I am trying to be objective here. Wouldn't it's amazing clarity in the high end be lost? If you put three cabs like that side by side, would it be like a rough way of trying to eliminate comb filtering and improve dispersion? They just seem so interesting but are so darn expensive not to mention it would cost an arm and a leg to fly that thing to my country, so I am very curious.

lofreek · #2 07-01-2010, 11:53 AM

The same phenomenon would beset the venerable 810 cabinet, but nobody seems to consider it a drawback there. In fact, an 810 would be even worse with regards to high frequency beaming as compared to the 5" drivers found in Phil's cabinets.

T. Alan Smith · #3 07-01-2010, 12:32 PM

If I'm hearing comb filtering, then I must really like comb filtering. I've tried their 8x5" neo a few times, and am in love with that cab.
Perfect clarity to my ears. It's high frequency content was present but smooth. With some EQ, I could brighten it up quite a bit, yet it remained smooth. It's not the deepest cab, but plenty deep for my tastes. Very very punchy thru the whole midrange.

Mr. Foxen · #4 07-01-2010, 01:21 PM

The drivers are too close together for combing to be the issue, they are close enough to couple. Effectively act like one wide driver, which limits the dispersal of sound to the sides.

Florox · #5 07-01-2010, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. Alan Smith

If I'm hearing comb filtering, then I must really like comb filtering. I've tried their 8x5" neo a few times, and am in love with that cab.
Perfect clarity to my ears. It's high frequency content was present but smooth. With some EQ, I could brighten it up quite a bit, yet it remained smooth. It's not the deepest cab, but plenty deep for my tastes. Very very punchy thru the whole midrange.

I think most people don't even notice comb filtering because they're used to it and horizontally placed speakers are the norm. I'll rephrase my question: How even is the tone across the stage? Is sound the same anywhere on the stage? Do you feel there's some loss in the high end when you move around as opposed to when you're standing in front of it? Even if it's slight?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lofreek

The same phenomenon would beset the venerable 810 cabinet, but nobody seems to consider it a drawback there. In fact, an 810 would be even worse with regards to high frequency beaming as compared to the 5" drivers found in Phil's cabinets.

The difference being that I don't care for a vintage sound, which is heavily comb filtered.

babebambi · #6 07-01-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Foxen

The drivers are too close together for combing to be the issue, they are close enough to couple. Effectively act like one wide driver, which limits the dispersal of sound to the sides.

I keep wondering why Phil didn't lo-pass the outer rows of drivers to increase the dispersion of his cabs. I mean he has gone such a long way and extra effort to make such a different cab, why didn't he put in the necessary cross-over network.

Does he not know better, don't care, don't notice the difference of the benefit of wider dispersion in live sound

Florox · #7 07-01-2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babebambi

I keep wondering why Phil didn't lo-pass the outer rows of drivers to increase the dispersion of his cabs. I mean he has gone such a long way and extra effort to make such a different cab, why didn't he put in the necessary cross-over network.

Does he not know better, don't care, don't notice the difference of the benefit of wider dispersion in live sound

This is interesting. Especially since he gets that god-status praise in the audiophile world, which I think is BS in any world.

KUNGfuSHERIFF · #8 07-01-2010, 02:30 PM

The one and only time I've heard a PJB on a gig, the player in the opening band was using one of the smaller combos. I listened to their sound check from the side of the state, maybe 15 or 20 feet away. It sure seemed to disperse well.

Florox · #9 07-01-2010, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KUNGfuSHERIFF

The one and only time I've heard a PJB on a gig, the player in the opening band was using one of the smaller combos. I listened to their sound check from the side of the state, maybe 15 or 20 feet away. It sure seemed to disperse well.

His small combos don't apply since the drivers are vertically aligned, so it's non-issue there.

bassCanadabass · #10 07-01-2010, 07:12 PM

I have a combo, and to my ears it sounds just as good from anywhere in the room. It does help to have it against a wall or in a corner though.

bottomzone · #11 07-01-2010, 07:26 PM

I was skeptical when considering getting my 6B due to the size of the drivers and the lack of a tweeter. I was able to order directly from Phil, which included free shipping and a 10 day money back trial period. As soon as I hooked up the 6B to my EA Micro 300 and starting playing, all of my skepticism melted away!!! Since using the 6B in church, people who aren't even musicians complemented me on how good my bass sounds!!!! No problems cutting through the mix, which includes a big Leslie speaker cabinet. Bottom, depth and clarity are all there-it's a keeper!!!

A Groove is a Terrible Thing to Waste!

B_Stringer · #12 07-02-2010, 07:53 AM

I have a PJB Six-pack, which I run with a 9B & 6B extension cabs depending on the size of the venue I'm playing. In my opinion, these cabinets deliver clear, smooth, tight sound no matter where I stand on stage. The bands I sit in with consistently comment on how huge my bss tone is and I've yet to hear a negative comment. Yes, PJB gear is pricey but well worth it. I'd suggest you try them if you can get your hands on them. You won't be disappointed

Florox · #13 07-02-2010, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Stringer

I have a PJB Six-pack, which I run with a 9B & 6B extension cabs depending on the size of the venue I'm playing. In my opinion, these cabinets deliver clear, smooth, tight sound no matter where I stand on stage. The bands I sit in with consistently comment on how huge my bss tone is and I've yet to hear a negative comment. Yes, PJB gear is pricey but well worth it. I'd suggest you try them if you can get your hands on them. You won't be disappointed

To be honest, I think the heads are reasonably priced, but the price for the speakers are stupidly insane. I care a lot about speaker problems and the least I can live with, the happier I am. Comb filtering is a horrible one I do not want to live with. I am dying to know how his cabs would compare to BFM's. These obviously must have Doppler distortion, but if the tone is very clear I could live with that.

coyoteboy · #14 07-02-2010, 11:32 AM

A crossfired arrangement of two or three columns would probably perform well, but only add to the price. Well, I wouldn't think the 2X crossfired would add that much to the price, but you have to balance a design like that with the "those speakers are funny lookin" response. If I'm worried about dispersion (never?) I just crossfire my 2 4Bs.

rbonner · #15 07-02-2010, 11:59 AM

Comb filtering. You guys should not be worried about that so much. Comb filtering is a serious problem with PA horns. The wavelength with high frequency audio is short and with speakers on each side of the stage you can get all sorts of nasty wave cancellation as the waves mix crossing the center of the room.
With bass frequencies the wavelength is much longer. You will get VERY LITTLE and NO NOTICABLE comb filtering with speakers lined up next to each other. Sure there might be dispersion angles etc, but i have never had a problem with this stuff and I line up six cabs in a row...
Now with the long wavelengths I wouldn't put bass cabs stage left and stage right... I have done cabs on each side of a drum riser without ill effect.
I've just not experienced this problem. Guys might say, well in theory... Blah Blah Blah, but I've had "larger" problems to deal with in reflected wave (echos) issues than generated wave issues in large rooms.

BOB

Florox · #16 07-02-2010, 07:43 PM

True, but not all us play with a straight bass sound. Especially me, which is why I am asking, because I use a lot of high end.

muddycreek · #17 07-02-2010, 08:00 PM

Phil Jones cabinets look to me like I'm supposed to lay them down and bake muffins in them.

bottomzone · #18 07-03-2010, 01:14 AM

I realize that You Tube videos are not the standard for accurate sound, but check out thess videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGnk3nCd6Bw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJNbkZkTkKc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agtzt...eature=related

The clarity is still there!!!

A Groove is a Terrible Thing to Waste!

Bassmec · #19 07-03-2010, 05:31 AM

I don't have a phil jones speaker but I do have a vintage ex BBC RG jones speaker which is a column of six quality alnico five inch full range drivers.
I use it power soaked and running full range into a ribbon mic as a bass guitar bright box.
There is a lot to be said for the clarity of a stack of five inch loudspeakers, the big advantage seems to be that there is no high frequency beaming going on within the normal frequency response of a bass guitar.

And I think you could stand quite a few of these side by side before you notice any degradation due to comb filtering as you pogo, moon walk or Chuck Berry strut from side to side in front of your cabs.
But if you are that worried about comb filtering why not see how your bass sounds through one of these bad little thingies:
http://www.philjonespuresound.com/products/?id=105

elavate7 · #20 07-03-2010, 05:44 AM

his cabs are definately interesting!