Phil Jones Suitcase Help Needed

DavidE · #1 12-19-2010, 01:55 PM

Hello all. FEEL FREE TO SKIP TO THE LAST PARAGRAPH IF YOU DON'T WANT ALL THE BACKGROUND AND CONTEXT.

I've been playing guitar (electric and acoustic) in solo acts, duos and full bands for 30+ years. This past spring, I was asked to join a country band to play bass (I play electric guitar in a trio with two of the guys in the country band). I took it on and have been having a blast learning to play bass like a bass player and putting together a great stage rig through purchases and trades, several of which with guys here on TB.

I started with the Jazz Bass Plus I already had (and I love it) and I bought a Hamer Cruise here to back it up (I like Hamer guitars) which is really fantastic. Then I played an EBMM Sterling and, after a rough start buying some here, have a nice black 4H and a natural HS that I plan to make my main basses as we start the new year so I'm good there.

My main rig is a MB SD800 through a Schroeder 1212r (traded with a TBer) matched with either a MB NY121 or a Dr. Bass 1260 with a Kappa neo that I picked up here as well. This rig is a monster and I can cover any gig, indoors and out, and never even push the system.

Today, I picked up a Phil Jones Suitcase (4x5) combo amp with the matching extension cab for a great deal. I bought it for two purposes. First, a nice compact practice rig. Second, for a couple of specific gigs. If I've had an issue with my main rig, it's that it sounds huge and in at least one room we play every month, I get a LOT of low end bloom (instead of the note decaying, it blooms and gets bigger - you should see the look on the drummer's face when this happens and he wears ear plugs) AND the rig can be too big for a couple of small places we play. As expected, the Phil Jones has clear bottom end, but it's not as huge and I don't think I'll have the bloom issue in the big wood room. Size wise, I think it will be awesome at a new venue we picked up for 2011 after playing a charity gig there (7 of us on a tiny stage). Not to mention, it should be great for the lower volume high society charity and country club type gigs we sometimes play.

THE CRUX of the thing is that based on what I read in advance, I thought the amp would be louder. I'm running it at 300 watts with the extension cab hooked up. I have the volume on the amp ALL the way up, the bass volume all the way up (eq flat though) and eq adjusted to taste. The input is set for active. The overload light doesn't go on, but if I put it higher, it will distort on low notes (I only play a 4 string and the lowest I go down to is D). I'm just not sure it's enough for a gig with the full band. Though I'll always be heard out front through the p.a., I need to hear myself on stage and I'm not sure this will be enough. Any thoughts on maximum volume on these???

Thanks

countrybass007 · #2 12-19-2010, 09:12 PM

I usually have mine set on passive, even with my active basses, and volume and clarity have never been a problem. I've even had to turn down some because it was too loud, and I'm not maxed out by any means. It sounds especially good with my Fender Marcus Miller and my Lakland Duck Dunn, one active and the other passive. I can always hear myself and the rest of the band says they can hear the bass well. If you don't have a manuel, go to the Phil Jones Pure Sound website, or call Phil for help. They're a great bunch, and always glad to help.

IntrepidCellist · #3 12-19-2010, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by countrybass007

I usually have mine set on passive, even with my active basses, and volume and clarity have never been a problem. I've even had to turn down some because it was too loud, and I'm not maxed out by any means. It sounds especially good with my Fender Marcus Miller and my Lakland Duck Dunn, one active and the other passive. I can always hear myself and the rest of the band says they can hear the bass well. If you don't have a manuel, go to the Phil Jones Pure Sound website, or call Phil for help. They're a great bunch, and always glad to help.

What context are you playing in? I have played in a handful of groups, and only one of them would ever have been able to use a Suitcase to keep up with the guitars and drums for stage volume.

DavidE · #4 12-23-2010, 04:01 PM

Bump?

Got a few minutes to play with the rig again tonight at home. Next bass gig is 1/8/11 and I want to use this setup, but I'm really scared I just won't hear it over the band. Maybe I'll take it and 1/2 my regular rig....

DavidE · #5 12-28-2010, 08:45 AM

Any other input, experience or advice?

Thanks

Philonius · #6 12-28-2010, 08:50 AM

Kinda hard to troubleshoot with the amount of info we're getting here. Most people seem to get the results they want from PJB gear if their expectations are reasonable. I'd have to suspect something is amiss with your rig. Best bet, by far, is to contact their customer service.

DavidE · #7 12-28-2010, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philonius

Kinda hard to troubleshoot with the amount of info we're getting here. Most people seem to get the results they want from PJB gear if their expectations are reasonable. I'd have to suspect something is amiss with your rig. Best bet, by far, is to contact their customer service.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the rig. It's only 300 watts with the extension cab and other users have stated that it's not really a loud rig, but that it cuts through better than most.

I did email their customer service over a week ago, but there could be a delay because of the holidays. I'll probably take the rig to the gig and just try it in the band context. But at the same time, I'll run a line out to my MB SD800 head and a larger cabinet so I can just flip the switch on the SD800 if I can't hear myself with the Suitcase stack alone.

The Suitcase does put out a surprising amount of low end and covers a lot of sonic ground with the graphic eq. It's just not loud. But I may not need loud if it cuts so I'll hear it on stage.

coyoteboy · #8 12-28-2010, 09:14 AM

Essentially what you have with the suitcase+4B is a very beefy 2x10.

As suggested, Id try the passive input, and the output control is a linear taper designed to go up all the way if needed, unlike many other designs that give most of their output by halfway. You noticed the absence of low end bloom, I hear this as a feature and not a flaw. Try carefully tiltin the suitcase back to fire at your head.

DavidE · #9 12-28-2010, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coyoteboy

Essentially what you have with the suitcase+4B is a very beefy 2x10.

As suggested, Id try the passive input, and the output control is a linear taper designed to go up all the way if needed, unlike many other designs that give most of their output by halfway. You noticed the absence of low end bloom, I hear this as a feature and not a flaw. Try carefully tiltin the suitcase back to fire at your head.

That's an interesting way to look at it! I've been used to gigging with a 750 watt head into 3 12" speakers, a 6" or 8" mid and two tweeters. A VERY different animal, but one that I love.

I do agree that the absence of low end bloom is very much a feature and not a flaw. That's one of the reasons I bought it, especially for the room we're playing on 1/8/11.

Oh, and glad to know that it's ok to keep the master volume all the way up.

As for tilting the amp, I think my low amp stands would lean it back too far and the manual says to keep it on the floor. Maybe I could bring my elevated guitar amp stand and keep the extension cab on the floor and put the combo on the higher amp stand for the best of both worlds. I wouldn't look as good though!

Blankandson · #10 12-31-2010, 07:33 PM

A video review of a similar PJB on YouTube shows a measurable drop in the lower frequencies if the cab is moved even 12 inches out from a wall. The reviewer suggests setting it right up against a wall and sitting flat on the floor.

DavidE · #11 01-01-2011, 01:26 PM

Yeah it will up against the wall and on the floor. I just hope I can hear it.

QuintrKD · #12 01-04-2011, 10:37 AM

The documentation on my superflightcase says to experiment with different distances from the wall or corner... i.e. tuning the amp to optimize to your predominant range and variations of the acoustics at each venue.

countrybass007 · #13 01-11-2011, 11:27 AM

So how did it work at the gig on 1/8? I wanted to see what you thought after using it at a gig, as it performs best in actual working situations.

DavidE · #14 02-28-2011, 10:09 PM

I guess it's time I updated this thread....

I've now used it twice in this venue: www.livethebarn.com and it was fantastic. I had several bassists asking about it and I heard it just fine on stage.

I just used it in that small club I mentioned this weekend with great success. It was the perfect size for the stage and our soundguy told me that it was really loud out front (he's a bassist) to the point that I actually turned it down.

We're playing a really BIG place this weekend where I took my full big rig last time and I'm going to try it there. We always have p.a. support up front, so I just want to hear how it will sound on a big stage in a big room with really high ceilings.

I do push the amp, but I've learned to set it so it doesn't distort at all and I add a little low end with the preamp on the Sterling.

It's not the big rig, but in many ways that's a good thing. It's so easy to overdo it with 750 watts three 12's, an 8" mid, a horn and a tweeter........ :-) Summer's coming and I'll have plenty of opportunity to use the big rig at outdoor gigs. For now, I'm having fun experimenting with this little rig that could.

I did use the combo part with my Dr. Bass 3 way cab for one gig and it really didn't offer a whole lot over the matching 4x5 cab. This surprised me a little.

One other point... while the amp Phil Jones is small, my big rig takes less lifting. My rack bag has a MB SD800 head and a Korg tuner. Very light. My Schroeder 1212r is 40 something lbs. If I take my MB NY121 cab for the top, that's really light. If I take my Dr. Bass cab for the top, it's also light (12" Kappa neo) as well. So, the PJ rig isn't easier to move.

DavidE · #15 03-06-2011, 06:55 PM

I took the suitcase and extension cab to the big tavern (think of an old mill). Lots of wood, three story ceiling, etc... It was the fiddle player's turn to drive, so instead of getting there my usual 45 minutes to an hour ahead of gig time, we got there 8 minutes before start time. I was rushed and the amp fell off the cart (about 2 inches off the ground). I set up FAST and we actually started on time. But the amp was funky the whole set and sounded like some speakers were blown and then the volume would go in and out. My low E sounded weak. I had no time to trouble shoot until an hour later in our first break.

The amp was perfect. I had a bad short George L's cable between the tuner and the input. DOH!!!!! Plugged straight in and used another cable to go from the tuner out to the tuner. The amp sounded HUGE in this little place second set.

Yes, I'm pushing the amp to its limits (glad it has a limiter), but man does it kick all kinds of butt.

Overall, it sounds great, but so does my big rig. However, the Phil Jones has two big advantages over the big rig: size (not weight though) and it's not boomy. At this point, I may just save the big rig for outdoor gigs this summer.

countrybass007 · #16 03-10-2011, 06:34 AM

Glad your Suitcase is working so well for you, I sure like mine. Wood venues seem to make it sound even better. I was working with a traveling band last night, all the way from Dayton, Ohio, and used my PJB BG800 for the keyboards. It sounded great!

DavidE · #17 03-10-2011, 11:10 AM

A traveling band from Dayton? I didn't know there were bands in Dayton. I know one band in Columbus that travels there for gigs, but as far as I know there's no place worth playing there.

DavidE · #18 03-10-2011, 11:24 AM

This Saturday we're playing a charity gig for a YMCA in a gymnasium. Big room, but I'm guessing the PJB Suitcase will be the better choice.

countrybass007 · #19 03-10-2011, 02:15 PM

It was "Walk the Moon" who said they were from Dayton, along with BJSB a solo act as warm up. They call themselves an Indie Rock band. I thought they were quite good.

countrybass007 · #20 03-10-2011, 03:41 PM

The solo act was actually "BJSR", who is Ben Rivet. His EP was recorded at dal Segno Studios in Dayton. The Ep lists Eric Suttman, Sean Cahalin, and Conner Smith on bass, playing on various cuts on the six tunes.