Played my first 'real' gig last night (shuttle 6.0 / sound questions )

Drifta · #1 10-17-2010, 09:38 AM

Hey, played first real gig last night. I was told there would be backline there waiting for me. sound check... no rig. Guy shows up w/ his swr 4x10 and a big rack but doesnt want me to use any of it.

I convinced him to let me use the cab w/ my shuttle 6.0. It was an 8 ohm cab so I was only pushing 375~ watts.

I think the sound guy was bad. I sounded horrible when he ran me through the PA. It seems my signal was too hot? I was either too hot or super muddy, had some feedback (but i think that one is on the sound guy cause the next bassist up had same problems) .

Can anyone enlighten me on the pre/post eq / the mic/line on the shuttle?

Also, as I said, I had the shuttle and the 4x10. During sound check before the sound guy hooked me in, i was playing the 4x10 and it just didn't seem enough. The club was rather large, 2 floors- big bar. It is making me question if i add a 1x12 to my current aggie 1x12, would it be enough in the future? I know it would probably be louder because it would be 600 watt > 375, but 410's move a lot more air right?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

KJung · #2 10-17-2010, 09:44 AM

First, any sound guy who says your signal is too hot is an idiot. Even a low end board will have an input pad, and any signal should be handled EASILY.

The Shuttle has a kind of unusual level control (versus the more typical continous level control). The mic level is a very low level signal, similar to a variable level control turned way down. The line level signal is hotter, similar to a variable level control turned most of the way up. So, if you run into an idiot again like that, just switch to mic level

It is also more typical to run to the board with a pre EQ send. This is especially important if you are engaging any of those voicing buttons on the Shuttle, which can sound OK with a very mid voiced, small cab or whatever, but will sound absolutely HORRIBLE through a large, full range front of house system.

So, in the future, to start out, set you DI to mic level and pre EQ. That will give any sound person a feed that they can handle, even if they don't know what they are doing!

Fuzzbass · #3 10-17-2010, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drifta

Guy shows up w/ his swr 4x10 and a big rack but doesnt want me to use any of it.

What a jerk.

KJung · #4 10-17-2010, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzbass

What a jerk.

+1 to that.

Drifta · #5 10-17-2010, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

First, any sound guy who says your signal is too hot is an idiot. Even a low end board will have an input pad, and any signal should be handled EASILY.

The Shuttle has a kind of unusual level control (versus the more typical continous level control). The mic level is a very low level signal, similar to a variable level control turned way down. The line level signal is hotter, similar to a variable level control turned most of the way up. So, if you run into an idiot again like that, just switch to mic level

It is also more typical to run to the board with a pre EQ send. This is especially important if you are engaging any of those voicing buttons on the Shuttle, which can sound OK with a very mid voiced, small cab or whatever, but will sound absolutely HORRIBLE through a large, full range front of house system.

So, in the future, to start out, set you DI to mic level and pre EQ. That will give any sound person a feed that they can handle, even if they don't know what they are doing!

He didnt say that, I just kind of thought that. It seemed either it was nothing or super super loud. Yeah it was on Post at first, sounded like complete butthole..

So I saw i had a 'pre' switch and I assumed if i switch it to that then He'd get my EQ, he then told me he'd run me flat and slap a compressor on my line ? since I told him I didn't have a compression pedal (and someone said i needed one) . I believe it was running as "pre" and "line".

This is all so new for me, I played a gig once but it was a small club and my gk bl600 & 4x10 was way more than enough. Last night was good learning experience.

KJung · #6 10-17-2010, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drifta

He didnt say that, I just kind of thought that. It seemed either it was nothing or super super loud. Yeah it was on Post at first, sounded like complete butthole..

So I saw i had a 'pre' switch and I assumed if i switch it to that then He'd get my EQ, he then told me he'd run me flat and slap a compressor on my line ? since I told him I didn't have a compression pedal (and someone said i needed one) . I believe it was running as "pre" and "line".

This is all so new for me, I played a gig once but it was a small club and my gk bl600 & 4x10 was way more than enough. Last night was good learning experience.

'Pre' EQ pretty much makes an amp DI the same thing as a Countryman or whatever... just a pure, buffered signal... close to plugging your bass into the mixing board.

Again, the mic/line level should not matter at all, since the input pad of even a low level board can handle just about any signal. Sounds like the guy just didn't know what he was doing.

And yes, given the voicing of the pre in the Shuttle, a post EQ send would not be a good thing for the most part. This is true for most amps.

Drifta · #7 10-17-2010, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

'Pre' EQ pretty much makes an amp DI the same thing as a Countryman or whatever... just a pure, buffered signal... close to plugging your bass into the mixing board.

Again, the mic/line level should not matter at all, since the input pad of even a low level board can handle just about any signal. Sounds like the guy just didn't know what he was doing.

And yes, given the voicing of the pre in the Shuttle, a post EQ send would not be a good thing for the most part. This is true for most amps.

Yeah I sort of assumed that when he kept telling me, "i've been doing this for 15 years, it's going to sound good once it starts, trust me" then lights up another cigarette at the bar.. "we cant do sound check once bar opens" .

But yeah, In cases like these, are cabs on stage purely monitors at that point? Or would having a good rig be good in a case like this when the PA sounds like butthole ? Cause I'm thinking of adding another 1x12 to my 1x12/6.0 combo but I don't know if it is enough.

Smallmouth_Bass · #8 10-17-2010, 10:40 AM

In general, your amp should be for a stage monitor or for the complete room in small to medium sized venues. If the venue has a full PA, then it shouldn't be a concern to have it fill the whole room. And even then, you don't want the stage volume to be too loud.

One or two 1x12's has been plenty for me for small to medium sized venues.

anderbass · #9 10-17-2010, 10:41 AM

Drifta, If it truly "sounded horrible" out in the room and find the sound man cant correct the problem, dont forget you always have the option of reaching over and unplugging that DI line. I'd much rather get reports that the bass needed to be louder than it sounded horrible.

thudfromafar · #10 10-17-2010, 10:42 AM

It will be enough for some situations, but as you did last night, you'll still want to go thru the PA in a huge place.

maurilio · #11 10-17-2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzbass

What a jerk.

Why?

I did gig like those. You don't know how the guy will play through your rig and how bad he is (or good for that matter)...
I remember once, in TN. There's no bass amp, so I pull in mine... everything's fine till the next guy plug in his bass and not even having played a note cranks the bass ctrl almost all the way up.... first note and the amp clipped like it was about to explode. I jumped on the stage and turned down the crtl and told the guy "don't do it - never - again"

M

KJung · #12 10-17-2010, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maurilio

Why?

I did gig like those. You don't know how the guy will play through your rig and how bad he is (or good for that matter)...
I remember once, in TN. There's no bass amp, so I pull in mine... everything's fine till the next guy plug in his bass and even having played a note cranks the bass ctrl almost all the way up.... first note and the amp clipped like it was about to explode. I jumped on the stage and turned down the crtl and told the guy "don't do it - never - again"

M

That's a good point also. If you have no clue as to who the other player is, it can get a bit difficult to balance seeming like you are a jerk versus having your rig abused.

I had a guy who wanted to play my, at the time, brand new Ken Smith (it was a fancy one) during his set after ours. He was a 'play with a pic' rocker, and there was no way. He called me every name in the book, and refused to use my amp (which I did say was OK to use). Sometimes you can't win I guess

maurilio · #13 10-17-2010, 11:02 AM

BTW, I keep my Shuttle on MIC and PRE, always.
The DI on shuttle series is very good, never had any sound man complaining, actually quite the opposite (sometime I flip the ground switch because of noise)...

maurilio · #14 10-17-2010, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

That's a good point also. If you have no clue as to who the other player is, it can get a bit difficult to balance seeming like you are a jerk versus having your rig abused.

I had a guy who wanted to play my, at the time, brand new Ken Smith (it was a fancy one) during his set after ours. He was a 'play with a pic' rocker, and there was no way. He called me every name in the book, and refused to use my amp (which I did say was OK to use). Sometimes you can't win I guess

they can call me what ever they want, it's my gear and my money, **** 'em!

KJung · #15 10-17-2010, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maurilio

they can call me what ever they want, it's my gear and my money, **** 'em!

+1 Sometimes you just have to make the call on that.

Hey, OT here, but a few of us were interested in the exact spec of that sonic blue VP5 that used to be Juan's. It looks nitro to us... is that correct?

OlSkewl56 · #16 10-17-2010, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maurilio

they can call me what ever they want, it's my gear and my money, **** 'em!

I've asked for a 1500.00 deposit before, guy didn't know how to react.

maurilio · #17 10-17-2010, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlSkewl56

I've asked for a 1500.00 deposit before, guy didn't know how to react.

maurilio · #18 10-17-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 Sometimes you just have to make the call on that.

Hey, OT here, but a few of us were interested in the exact spec of that sonic blue VP5 that used to be Juan's. It looks nitro to us... is that correct?

Ken, in this moment my brain can not figure it out. We got three sonic blue and each of one had different specs. I think it has body nitro and poly neck, but don't trust me on this right now.

To the OP, sorry for the derail.....

Jawbone · #19 10-17-2010, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drifta

.. no rig. Guy shows up w/ his swr 4x10 and a big rack but doesnt want me to use any of it.

Couldn't have been one of our card carrying memebrs

- I hope.

I always run into knuckle heads running the board - get use to it and educate yourself to be smarter than they are. You always have take care of "moi".

KJung · #20 10-17-2010, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maurilio

Ken, in this moment my brain can not figure it out. We got three sonic blue and each of one had different specs. I think it has body nitro and poly neck, but don't trust me on this right now.

To the OP, sorry for the derail.....

Cool... no big deal.. beautiful bass.... it does look like a nitro body with a satin poly neck to me. Nice instrument.