Playing Live - FEELING the bass?

[Gord]

Hi guys,
I've played a lot of shows, with a lot of amps, but everytime I hear the ampeg 810, it's a different story. It's not a matter of hearing clean, clear bass with those things, it just hits you hard in the chest, and demands attention. Why is this? I ONLY ever notice it with ampeg 810s. I myself play through two eden 410s, and while I get nice punchly clear bass - it's heard, not felt. Surely this effect can be produced on other cabinets with other amps - how do I do that?

[seamonkey]

Other than raising a 4x10 up to point it at your chest.

There are a few options for shaker boards so you can get this feel at any volume level
PLEASURE BOARD

[blastjv]

I think it's a matter of the 810 focusing on those thumpy bass and low mid frequencies (and not the sub lows as much), and the somewhat punchier feel and sound of an all sealed cab. Ideally, you can just figure out what those frequencies are and dial them in with your rig...not always easy, but not impossible.....

-JV

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by blastjv

I think it's a matter of the 810 focusing on those thumpy bass and low mid frequencies (and not the sub lows as much), and the somewhat punchier feel and sound of an all sealed cab. Ideally, you can just figure out what those frequencies are and dial them in with your rig...not always easy, but not impossible.....

true, however, the 810 makes it super easy to get, and there is definitely an interaction you get with big cabs that you don't get with little cabs.

[superbassman2000]

I have noticed it with other rigs (never had an 810) but I notice that I play better when I have a nice thick tone with a nice, deep thump too

[Gord]

Sorry, I realize that I might have been unclear - I meant more standing in the crowd. With some bands, the bass is just a kick in the chest. I've been in the crowd during sound check for my band, and the bass sounds great - it just doesn't have that same kind of kick!

I just bought an EQ pedal - could boosting the lows and lowmids help with that? Is that what is meant by thump, that feeling of bass doom?

[blastjv]

I was trying to be optimistic about him finding the sound without having to buy a big 810 (like me and so many others...)

-JV

[Gord]

Like I said, I have two eden 410s - I haven't really ever heard them praised for their thump. Great punchiness, but I want to hit people right in the chest when I play!

[saustindavis]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

Other than raising a 4x10 up to point it at your chest.

There are a few options for shaker boards so you can get this feel at any volume level
PLEASURE BOARD

How much are those things? I might have to tell my church about it. Where can I find a dealer that has the price in dollars?

[Jim C]

Originally Posted by Gord

Sorry, I realize that I might have been unclear - I meant more standing in the crowd. With some bands, the bass is just a kick in the chest. I've been in the crowd during sound check for my band, and the bass sounds great - it just doesn't have that same kind of kick!

Difficult to answer with the information given.
If very little of the bass signal goes through the PA then you either like an SVT cabinet, or other players are not going after that sound.
If most of the bass goes through the PA,then either you liked a mic'd SVT cabinet, or the sooundman and/or other players are not going after that sound.
I doubt that many of us could walk into a club, gymnasium, arena, etc and absolutely be able to tell an SVT backline from another good amp/cab unless you were extremely familiar with the player and his tonal signature. On 2nd thought, I doubt it could be done repeatedly.

[JumboJack]

Originally Posted by saustindavis

How much are those things? I might have to tell my church about it. Where can I find a dealer that has the price in dollars?

ButtKicker®

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by blastjv

I think it's a matter of the 810 focusing on those thumpy bass and low mid frequencies (and not the sub lows as much), and the somewhat punchier feel and sound of an all sealed cab. Ideally, you can just figure out what those frequencies are and dial them in with your rig...

This.

The OP mentioned that he has TWO Eden 4*10's, giving him the same cone area as a fridge, and roughly the same height when stacked. So I don't think that it's a size thing.

My suspicion is that it's the difference in the attack envelope with that undersized sealed cab. I've never checked out the sealed SWR Marcus Miller cabs. I wonder if a pair of those would hit as hard as an SVT cabinet?

Regardless, I doubt that EQ is going to take you all the way when it comes to matching the feel of an SVT cab live. After all, you can equalize a pair of guitar cabinets, one open-backed and the other closed, so that they sound almost identical in a close-mic'd studio recording.

But live in a room, you can't duplicate the broad dispersion pattern of the open-backed cab, or the percussive impact of the closed-back cab, no matter how much EQ tweaking you do.

[CpTCrunch]

You could try covering the ports on the cabs.

A buddy has a ported eden 410 with 2 or 3 bottom ports "I don't remember tbh". First he stuffed emm full of poly-fil "I rofled when he blew poly-fil all over the place while playing...", later on he built wood caps for them.

I think eventually he ended up replacing the woofers because he was giving it like 1800 watts. Preamp-> qsc rmx 1850 -> cab. I'm not sure about the tweeter but his setup hits like a truck and sounds great.

If your cab is already sealed then ignore my post
I'm not all that familiar with those cabs and the models they come in ect. I build my own.

[Russell L]

I wonder how much the wood between the sets of four makes. That is, does having all the speakers in one cab make the difference?

Oh, I admit playing a V4 through an SVT 810 is the time I went to bass Nirvana.

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by Gord

Sorry, I realize that I might have been unclear - I meant more standing in the crowd. With some bands, the bass is just a kick in the chest. I've been in the crowd during sound check for my band, and the bass sounds great - it just doesn't have that same kind of kick!

I just bought an EQ pedal - could boosting the lows and lowmids help with that? Is that what is meant by thump, that feeling of bass doom?

This depends on so many variables...
Did you just listen in the crowd in one venue and at one spot? And how was the PA support? Or did you only rely on your own amp when you were listening in the crowd?
These are some of the points we need to know first before we are able to steer into the right direction with our answer(s).
Those frequencies that normaly give you that "kick" or punch are between say 50 and 100hz. When you have an exces amount of lower then 40hz frequencies, and it is loud, you can feel pretty sick after some time (so these frequencies will not give you that "kick" you're after)

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Russell L

I wonder how much the wood between the sets of four makes. That is, does having all the speakers in one cab make the difference?

not if the speakers are the same and the cabs' internal volumes are the same.

[Gord]

I replied on this using my talkbass app - I guess it didn't update! Is what I'm describing the same as what people describe as "thump"? All I'm getting out of my amp is "punch". Is there a way to do both? My edens have round rear ports. Would filling them help out with the thump?

Originally Posted by Arjank

This depends on so many variables...
Did you just listen in the crowd in one venue and at one spot? And how was the PA support? Or did you only rely on your own amp when you were listening in the crowd?
These are some of the points we need to know first before we are able to steer into the right direction with our answer(s).
Those frequencies that normaly give you that "kick" or punch are between say 50 and 100hz. When you have an exces amount of lower then 40hz frequencies, and it is loud, you can feel pretty sick after some time (so these frequencies will not give you that "kick" you're after)

The ampeg stacks that I've heard at the local venue we play at have never been mic'd, just boom from the stage. My boss EQ pedal has two sliders for both 50 and 100, I'll start by playing with those. I just bought the pedal, so I haven't had a chance to even plug it in yet!

[Russell L]

Originally Posted by Gord

I replied on this using my talkbass app - I guess it didn't update! Is what I'm describing the same as what people describe as "thump"? All I'm getting out of my amp is "punch". Is there a way to do both? My edens have round rear ports. Would filling them help out with the thump?




The ampeg stacks that I've heard at the local venue we play at have never been mic'd, just boom from the stage. My boss EQ pedal has two sliders for both 50 and 100, I'll start by playing with those. I just bought the pedal, so I haven't had a chance to even plug it in yet!

My old Trace had a slider for 100Hz. It was punchy/thumpy. I would use the 50Hz sparingly, IMO.

[CpTCrunch]

Originally Posted by Gord

I replied on this using my talkbass app - I guess it didn't update! Is what I'm describing the same as what people describe as "thump"? All I'm getting out of my amp is "punch". Is there a way to do both? My edens have round rear ports. Would filling them help out with the thump?

All's I can say is try it. Considering you have 2 you could do a side by side test of the 2 cabs. Ported and covered.
Note: the sealed cab will require more watts. Additionally not all woofers are made for sealed boxes.

There's loads of info via google on the subject of ports vs sealed ect.

Out of curiosity how many watts are you giving the cabs?

[stingraysvt]

I know what you mean, every time I play my SVT 8x10 or hear one live the sound just wraps the room in a thick rich tone so dimensional you can almost reach out and touch it. Just really no other way to reproduce that. I also have two Eden 410XLT's and I've been told I moved so much air that the soundguy's pants legs were flapping, but never had the same effect as the SVT