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04-16-2011, 04:04 PM
| | | | Please! Need a final answer.
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04-16-2011, 04:07 PM
|  | Regal User | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Orange County, CA | | | Search for 'underpowering' there's lots of mis/information on the subject. Long story short, you can't underpower a speaker but you can accidentally throw some huge transients at it when you dime your amp to get it loud.
As far as the speaker working or not, that's more an issue of whether its design will mesh with the size/porting of the cab it's going into. If the sensitivity of the speaker is fairly high and the Thiele-Small parameters are correct for the box you should have no problems.
There are a few speaker gurus here that can probably chime in and say things better than I can but that's the gist of it. |
04-16-2011, 04:08 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Nude Zealand | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Rymsk19  | The final answer: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS UNDERPOWERING.
There may be many reasons why the Celestion could be inappropriate, but this will not be one of them.
Edit: wow, lots of simultaneous typing going on.
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04-16-2011, 04:08 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Palm Coast, Florida | | | The second rep is a moron - period
There is NO SUCH THING as underpowering.
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04-16-2011, 04:08 PM
| | Registered User
Endorsing Artist: Genz Benz Amplification | | Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nashville | | | Underpowering is a myth. Total marketing b.s. You'll be fine with that speaker. |
04-16-2011, 04:17 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Toronto Ontario Canada | | | The other side of the coin is is the driver going to work well in your cabinet. That's going to be a crapshoot at best.
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Paul
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04-16-2011, 06:04 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Portland, OR | | | Why not rebuild the one you have for less cash from a reputable speaker repair facility like JAMAC SPEAKERS in Portland.
They quoted me $80 -100 to rebuild the stock 15" Celestion in one of my 1518T cabs.
I'm not sure what the difference is between a standard 12" Celestion and the "Specially Designed for Trace Elliot" 12" Celestion speaker is but, the replacement speaker may not sound the same... just sayin...
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04-16-2011, 08:46 PM
| | Registered User
Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design | | Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New Hampshire | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Rymsk19 | 1. There is no such thing as underpowering.
2. Choosing a replacement driver based only on watts and inches is not how it's done. This is: Understanding Loudspeaker Data | Eminence Speaker
3. Sales reps are not engineers.
4. The time to get expert opinions is before you buy something, not after.
Last edited by billfitzmaurice : 04-16-2011 at 08:50 PM.
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04-17-2011, 07:43 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mississippi Coast | | | Underpowering; Some loudspeakers have a lower sensitivity than others and, depending on the cabinet it's placed in, may not respond well with a lower powered amp. So the term, "underpowering", could be used in this context, but not in relationship to being damaged by low power.
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ERIC WATKINS
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04-17-2011, 07:50 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2005 Location: New Jersey | | | Why does Eminence say this?
"POWER HANDLING
This specification is very important to transducer selection. Obviously, you need to choose a loudspeaker that is capable of handling the input power you are going to provide. By the same token, you can destroy a loudspeaker by using too little power" |
04-17-2011, 08:08 AM
|  | amateur tube amp hoarder
Endorsing Artist: J Worrell Pickups / J Worrell Bass | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Dayton OH | | Quote:
Originally Posted by fleabee Why does Eminence say this?
"POWER HANDLING
This specification is very important to transducer selection. Obviously, you need to choose a loudspeaker that is capable of handling the input power you are going to provide. By the same token, you can destroy a loudspeaker by using too little power" | Because even corporations can be misinformed. |
04-17-2011, 08:12 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mississippi Coast | | Quote:
Originally Posted by fleabee Why does Eminence say this?
"POWER HANDLING
This specification is very important to transducer selection. Obviously, you need to choose a loudspeaker that is capable of handling the input power you are going to provide. By the same token, you can destroy a loudspeaker by using too little power" | It's not the lack of power that can do damage, it's the lack of judgement by some users who will drive their amp into clipping, which can produce high powered spikes that can damage a driver, usually tweeters.
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ERIC WATKINS
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04-17-2011, 08:14 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brooklyn Park, MN. | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by fleabee Why does Eminence say this?
"POWER HANDLING
This specification is very important to transducer selection. Obviously, you need to choose a loudspeaker that is capable of handling the input power you are going to provide. By the same token, you can destroy a loudspeaker by using too little power" | So does that mean I have to run my amp wide open, if I turn the volume down my speaker will blow??????? LOL
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04-17-2011, 08:30 AM
| | amateur tube amp hoarder
Endorsing Artist: J Worrell Pickups / J Worrell Bass | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Dayton OH | | Quote:
Originally Posted by hdracer So does that mean I have to run my amp wide open, if I turn the volume down my speaker will blow??????? LOL | That's the curiously disregarded bit by this myth-how 100 watts of clipping amp will supposedly do damage where 500 watts of properly functioning amp won't.  |
04-17-2011, 02:06 PM
| | Registered User
Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design | | Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New Hampshire | | Quote:
Originally Posted by fleabee Why does Eminence say this?
"POWER HANDLING
This specification is very important to transducer selection. Obviously, you need to choose a loudspeaker that is capable of handling the input power you are going to provide. By the same token, you can destroy a loudspeaker by using too little power" | Good question, you should ask them. If correctly phrased they would say "you can destroy a high frequency driver by using too little power", ie., tweeters. Woofers? No. |
04-17-2011, 03:56 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Wasilla, Alaska | | | I love how all this stuff instead of being cut and dry....has to be all backwards and confusing....to little power to the speaker can cause an output spike and so on....sucks it has to be so confusing and nothing is cut and dry.
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04-17-2011, 04:19 PM
| | Registered User
Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design | | Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New Hampshire | | Quote:
Originally Posted by selftitled907 I love how all this stuff instead of being cut and dry....has to be all backwards and confusing....to little power to the speaker can cause an output spike and so on....sucks it has to be so confusing and nothing is cut and dry. | The physics is not confusing and is totally cut and dry. What is confused and not cut and dry is the knowledge of the physics, even by some sources that should know better, but for whatever reason don't. And no, too little power to the speaker does not cause an output spike. |
04-17-2011, 04:26 PM
|  | Love your craft, stay humble, enjoy the journey | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Boston Massachusetts | | Quote:
Originally Posted by christw That's the curiously disregarded bit by this myth-how 100 watts of clipping amp will supposedly do damage where 500 watts of properly functioning amp won't. | Put an amp with a high THD on an oscilloscope. You'll see the "rolling hills" sine wave flatten out top and bottom. Someone with more knowledge can explain why that can damage a speaker. I had an Acoustic 220 back in the 80's that had a 10% THD. One of my band mates ran an amplifier repair shop and we put it on the scope. I would start to distort after 5 on the volume dial which equaled bass farts. Most amps today are much lower THD then back then.
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04-17-2011, 04:47 PM
| | Registered User
Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design | | Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New Hampshire | | Quote:
Originally Posted by butchblack Put an amp with a high THD on an oscilloscope. You'll see the "rolling hills" sine wave flatten out top and bottom. Someone with more knowledge can explain why that can damage a speaker. | It can damage a tweeter, and sometimes a midrange driver, because that 'flattening' is actually greatly increased high frequency harmonic content, which can damage high frequency drivers because that content overpowers them. It has zero effect on woofers, other than to sound really sweet when it's a 50 watt Plexi or Vox AC30 cranked to the max. | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | 
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