Is it possible to 'over-cab'/'over-amp'??

Saxn · #1 03-08-2011, 08:33 PM

Ok, bear with me as I am a complete noob when it comes to electric instruments. I have been practicing strictly with a mixer board and some headphones until now, but now I am looking to get the components that will allow me to play so OTHERS can hear

Unfortunately the learning curve seems to be HORRENDOUS when it comes to the electronics portion of the equation, and I have been doing a lot of reading on that trying to avoid noober mistakes in my first purchases.

SO, I have seen it mentioned a time or two that if you run your amp at too low of a setting, then your tone will suffer. I was thinking of starting with a 410 cab powered by a 350 watt amp. I am guessing this would be adequate for a rather small stages without PA support. My question, though, is whether or not this particular setup would suck wong in a quieter setting that would require me to back off the power a little. If not, then great! I am all ready to get into what EXACTLY I'd like to buy. If this will be a problem then what would you suggest as an alternative setup?

Thanks in advance for the help.

JimmyM · #2 03-08-2011, 08:47 PM

no, it wouldn't suck wong in a quieter setting. a 300-500w amp and a 410 is pretty standard issue for bassists at all volume levels, with the exception of maybe jazz trios in lounges.

Saxn · #3 03-08-2011, 08:51 PM

Thank you Jimmy. I was actually hoping you'd weigh in here as i have seen you dish out some really good advice on amps/cabs in the past.

Can you tell me where the 'minimum' is with regards to amp settings before the tone starts to go?

JimmyM · #4 03-08-2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saxn

Thank you Jimmy. I was actually hoping you'd weigh in here as i have seen you dish out some really good advice on amps/cabs in the past.

Can you tell me where the 'minimum' is with regards to amp settings before the tone starts to go?

thank you, saxn!

where the tone starts to go? no minimum, really. very much amp-dependent. some amps you might like better when they're pushed, some you might not. but i've played an svt/810 many times at a very quiet volume, and it always sounds great to me despite it being one of the first amps people think of that sound better when pushed.

fdeck · #5 03-08-2011, 09:09 PM

There is no minimum.

There's a point where an amp begins to distort. If you turn down below that point, you won't get the distortion, but the tone quality will be pretty much the same all the way down to zero.

Now there are some tricks that our ears, and rooms, play on us. I've found that in really small rooms, it's hard to get good sound out of a giant speaker. This may be one reason why the jazz trio players favor dinky little amps. Also, we perceive sound differently at different volume levels. (Look up Fletcher-Munson effect). And if all other things are equal, even a barely perceptible increase in volume will typically sound better to our ears and brains.

Billnc · #6 03-08-2011, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

thank you, saxn!

where the tone starts to go? no minimum, really. very much amp-dependent. some amps you might like better when they're pushed, some you might not. but i've played an svt/810 many times at a very quiet volume, and it always sounds great to me despite it being one of the first amps people think of that sound better when pushed.

They all go down to 0. I played an acoustic gig on fretless through an SVT that was provided. It looked ridiculous but sounded killer at very low volume.

Saxn · #7 03-08-2011, 09:50 PM

Thanks for the responses, guys! Looks like I can quit worrying about how quiet my rig will play and still sound good, then. Now just a matter of figuring out what will fill the bill on my budget!

Now it's on to the HARD stuff I suppose...

LiquidMidnight · #8 03-08-2011, 10:01 PM

With a solid state amplifier, it's less of a concern. You can get to the "sweet spot" pretty quickly once the gain gets past two and then adjust accordingly with the volume pot. A 4x10 should be pretty good for most small-to-medium gigs. You can always add another cab for larger gigs and have the single 4x10 for when anything more would be overkill.

Downunderwonder · #9 03-08-2011, 10:21 PM

With a SS amp keep the gain up to the preamp to shape your tone and turn up the master vol to what's needed.

AwkwardLoudness · #10 03-08-2011, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saxn

I was thinking of starting with a 410 cab powered by a 350 watt amp. I am guessing this would be adequate for a rather small stages without PA support.

Most likely yes, but it will depend how loud the band is especially the drummer. Also, not all 4x10 cabs are created equal in terms of volume and efficiency.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saxn

My question, though, is whether or not this particular setup would suck wong in a quieter setting that would require me to back off the power a little.

The rig will sound fine at low to medium volume (unless the rig really sucks 'wong' to begin with), but probably better loud...but hey I like loud as a personal preference. Speakers have a broad sweet spot when pushing wind a bit. Tube amps definitely have a sweet spot as they become saturated and start clipping or are on the edge of clipping. Many guitarists have the opinion that they can't get 'my tone' at low volume due to the controlled feedback and dynamics that are reached only at loud volume, but I don't hear this complaint from bass players nearly as often.

christw · #11 03-08-2011, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwkwardLoudness

...Many guitarists have the opinion that they can't get 'my tone' at low volume due to the controlled feedback and dynamics that are reached only at loud volume, but I don't hear this complaint from bass players nearly as often.

I think I heard that complaint from you.

Saxn · #12 03-09-2011, 07:01 AM

Thanks again for all these nuggets. I know the question probably came off as pretty lame, but on my budget it's absolutely essential I get it right the first time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwkwardLoudness

Most likely yes, but it will depend how loud the band is especially the drummer.

Ahh, there's the rub... I am trying to anticipate playing currently non-existent gigs! There is one group that I will probably be jumping in with. I play sax for them already, and they currently have a mediocre keyboardist providing a (very shaky) left-hand bass thing. I will be playing with them almost immediately after getting the gear. The guitarist changes rigs like I change underwear, though, and so a consistent sound from lead there really ain't. I am interested in having a cab/amp combo that will be flexible enough to handle this situation and OTHERS that may arise in the future - if you know what I mean

AwkwardLoudness · #13 03-09-2011, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christw

I think I heard that complaint from you.

Yes, I plead guilty...for both bass and lead guitar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saxn

I am interested in having a cab/amp combo that will be flexible enough to handle this situation and OTHERS that may arise in the future - if you know what I mean

I totally know what you mean. My philosophy on this is that it's better to have too much power and too many cabs/speakers than not enough....as long as it all fits in your vehicle or the band's rental van or whatever. I say get a 4x10 cab (if that's what you want) and then get another 4x10 of the same type. Use two cabs when you need that extra volume especially at ear level. Make sure the amp's minimum impedance can match that of the two cabs, though.