Power amp clipping and barely loud enough.

[B-string]

When you pop the G you should expect to light the clip unless the master is very low, no way around that really. It is the lower registers where you want to filter the sub-sonic to prevent speaker damage.

[M Sterling]

Originally Posted by mjac28

I would also invest in a Microthumpinator

Yup, I've considered this one as well. I really like the adjustability of the fdeck, though. I would really prefer something that can run after my preamp, so I can still send big subs to the foh (ala octave pedal), when needed.

[dincz]

Originally Posted by M Sterling

crown xls602d into a LDS 121261. The cab is rated at around 1100 watts and features 2 delta lf eminence 12's.

What is the cab impedance and are you running it from one power amp channel or bridged?

[NYCbassist]

Originally Posted by M Sterling

Thanks, guys!

I am running a comp before the Pre, but it is not one that specializes in peak limiting. I may look into a rack limiter to go between the Pre and power amp.

I usually run my eq relatively flat with a little mid bump. The clipping did not increase a lot when I engaged the deep switch on the Pre or boosted the bass eq. I am generally pretty conservative with my low end eq for speaker preservation purposes.

I do run 2 cabs sometimes, but they are not identical. I compensate for this by running them each in their own channel because of the ohms mismatch. When I do this, volume/cliiping is not a concern. I was wondering if there is a solution without adding another cab.

If you have the other Cab, I would just use it. Just for the peace of mind alone. I haul both of my Avatars to Rehearsal and we play loud. The Hartke only gets up to 2/10. I f I want to hear myself more, I mess with the EQ. That's a good way to find My Sonic Ground. It may not work for every one but It seems like I'm way loud enough without "Pushing" anything too hard.

[M Sterling]

Originally Posted by B-string

When you pop the G you should expect to light the clip unless the master is very low, no way around that really. It is the lower registers where you want to filter the sub-sonic to prevent speaker damage.

Gotcha. I really don't get much clipping in the lower register, so it seems as though this is perfectly normal and I'm just being extra cautious.

I used to run a hpf when I used a laptop rig and I always use it when recording. I just really need one that can run at line level for my current needs.

Thanks for all of the responses, I feel like I was probably being a little noobish and over cautious having never run a modualr pre/power set up before.

[M Sterling]

Originally Posted by dincz

What is the cab impedance and are you running it from one power amp channel or bridged?

4 ohms from a single channel.

[M Sterling]

Originally Posted by NYCbassist

If you have the other Cab, I would just use it. Just for the peace of mind alone. I haul both of my Avatars to Rehearsal and we play loud. The Hartke only gets up to 2/10. I f I want to hear myself more, I mess with the EQ. That's a good way to find My Sonic Ground. It may not work for every one but It seems like I'm way loud enough without "Pushing" anything too hard.

This is most likely what I will end up doing, just for peace of mind.

[B-string]

Originally Posted by M Sterling

Gotcha. I really don't get much clipping in the lower register, so it seems as though this is perfectly normal and I'm just being extra cautious.

I used to run a hpf when I used a laptop rig and I always use it when recording. I just really need one that can run at line level for my current needs.

Thanks for all of the responses, I feel like I was probably being a little noobish and over cautious having never run a modualr pre/power set up before.

Caution is NEVER a bad thing! Glad you are feeling a little more at ease. Still recommend the HPF to keep large transients away from your speakers.

[wcriley]

Originally Posted by M Sterling

I really don't get much clipping in the lower register, so it seems as though this is perfectly normal and I'm just being extra cautious.

I'll repeat what I wrote in an earlier post:
A "clip light" coming on doesn't necessarily mean that anything is actually clipping. In my experience, the light will come on well before "clipping level" is reached. It's just a warning that you're appoaching the limits of the particular stage it's monitoring.

If it stays on for extended periods, back things down.
If it only blinks occasionally, ignore it.

[M Sterling]

Originally Posted by B-string

Caution is NEVER a bad thing! Glad you are feeling a little more at ease. Still recommend the HPF to keep large transients away from your speakers.

Yup and I can get a good hpf for a fraction of the price of new cabs or speakers!

[M Sterling]

Originally Posted by wcriley

I'll repeat what I wrote in an earlier post:
A "clip light" coming on doesn't necessarily mean that anything is actually clipping. In my experience, the light will come on well before "clipping level" is reached. It's just a warning that you're appoaching the limits of the particular stage it's monitoring.

If it stays on for extended periods, back things down.
If it only blinks occasionally, ignore it.

Thanks!

This is what I was hoping, and based off of my googling what I thought was the case. It is nice to have it confirmed. There is no time that it stays on. Just blinks sometimes.

[ThisBass]

Human ears can't detect short term clipping.
Appro 0.2 - 0.3 seconds of time duration for clipping is needed for human ears to hear any clipping.
All clippings with shorter time durations are interpreted as a clear signal envelope, but it isn't.

Clip Leds are not very reliable indicators for clipping. Daylight or room illumination impacts the reading of slightly flashing Leds very strong.
Best situation for reading any Clip Leds is in the dark. It's best reading in the very dark. In the very dark it's possible to see Leds flashing which you will never see at daylight situation.

Depending on different room illumination or different daylight situations the reading of clipping Leds becomes sometimes very different.


It's best way to detect clipping by dynamic.
If you have got plenty dynamics in sound reinforcement means you'll probably don't have any clipping at transients.
If you have got only smooth dynamic (or flattened dynamic) at higher volumes means most of the time that you have got some non audible clipping.

But if you have got some random audible clipping at hard stroke attacks, so what, it does not matter.

[BassmanPaul]

Just as a point, I haven't seen anyone else mention this, a clipped signal does not damage woofers. Too much power does that.

[B-string]

Was just hoping to leave that can O'worms sealed

[Downunderwonder]

OP already swallowed the whole can o'worms and wondering why he's got indigestion.

Too much power fries voice coils. Clipping amps make more power than when they weren't clipping, quid pro quo clipping cops the blame, when a non clipping amp with a higher output would have fried the coils while sounding clean, if the drivers would have taken the peaks.

A compressor can make things worse by letting you play louder ( hotter voice coil ) all the time while killing your dynamic punch. That's a sort of a soft clip, raising the average power level.

But it's not the clipping, it's the volume you're seeking.

You could probably change to kappalites but you might need a new crossover too.

[Foz]

FWIW I would sell that amp or transfer it over to less demanding duty [like driving someone's vox monitors or tweets in modest PA stack] and get a bigger amp for that cab. Beside the fact you are driving the amp into clip state [a sure sign you brought a knife to a gun fight], I think its rated output capability [600w RMS ?] is well below the excursion limit of your cab [over 1kw ?]- and thus it has zero headroom above the cabs limitations - also no high pass filter. Basically it fails all the checklist items I go through in pondering on an amp for use in a particular bass rig and it aint like its ultra low weight or doing something all fart sniffing booteek for your tone...

So maybe look at something with programmable high pass filtering and able to push 2kw or better into 4 ohms - then you can run it below clip - and leave a couple dB or so of headroom - and still have full access to everything the cab can safely produce. If the new amp also has programmable voltage limiting you make the rig stone cold idiot-proof.

My $0.02

[Foz]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

You could probably change to kappalites but you might need a new crossover too.

Oh - so you think his woofs can't stand the weather? If so, ignore the above and get a louder cab.

But I dunno if that's the case - my understanding was everything sounds OK - its just that he has drive his amp to clip to get the volume he sometimes needs. If that's the case then I still say get a better amp.

[B-string]

I would take your $0.02, but I would have to charge you $1.00 for it
He is having no sound or volume problems.

[Downunderwonder]

4.8mm xmax on delta12LFA, I think he runs out of excursion a hell of a lot lower than 1000W. Thinking about it some more, the excursion is under control so it must be hell loud mids doing the cooking.

A more powrful amp will not solve anything.

[Downunderwonder]

Or perhaps the lows aren't as under control as he thinks and they are pushing a little past xmax, which heats up the voice coils also.