Power amp/Preamp tone questions

Captain Keys · #1 12-07-2010, 09:42 AM

Hello all. I have some questions about a power/pre setup that I can't seem to find the answer to (And yes, I did search). I am seriously considering buying one of the Crown XLS Drivecore seres power amps. They are cheap, and seem to be well made. I haven't been playing long and so I have never owned a "real" amplifier, only practice amps. My question is, can a power/pre combo deliver a tone similar to that of a regular head? My preferred tone is VERY warm and tubey with very little treble. I have found I can get this tone out of Mesa heads the best. Markbass, Ashdown, and some Ampeg amps also deliver the tone I like. It seems logical that with a carefully selected preamp, I can hand pick the tone I want while still keeping the same power amp. My concern is I can't seem to find any sound clips of people playing through a power/pre setup with my preferred tone. Its mostly metal/grungy type tones. I am planning on buying the Crown XLS 1000 power amp and then trying out various preamps until I find one I like. Does this sound like a good plan? If it helps to know, I am beginning construction of a fEarful 12/6 this weekend, and that will be the cab I use.

KratosNL · #2 12-07-2010, 09:46 AM

I'm pretty much planning to do the same as you, but i'm one of those metal/grungy type guys. A lot of mids and treble xd. Still i'm curious to see what people have to say about it. Also planning to construct a fearful btw. I'm just not sure about building a 15/6 or a 12/6.

Captain Keys · #3 12-07-2010, 09:49 AM

I picked the 12/6 because I like the sound of 12s more. But that's me. I know a lot of metal guys who love 15s. I can't wait to start. It looks like a fun project.

pbd · #4 12-07-2010, 09:49 AM

I am sure you will get a lot of answers on this one so I will throw my 2 cents in.

I have both kinds of set ups. Amp/preamp built together and preamp and amp seperate. Currently I run amp/preamp with pedals.

Amp and preamp seperate can give you options for changing your tone by changing your amp. An amp will color your signal so if you find a preamp that you like, features, sound, ease of use . . . then you can match that to a amp that fits you tone desires and power requirments for speakers.

This said, you may just find an amp/preamp together that does that for you so I am not sure I would say one is better than the other.

just my 2 cents

Todd

Captain Keys · #5 12-07-2010, 09:54 AM

Thanks for the info pbd. May I ask what kind of tone you prefer?

FuzzBoxVoodoo · #6 12-07-2010, 09:57 AM

Here is a place to hear some sample clips.. http://basstasters.com/
I really like the Amp Preamp setup especially when you are looking for your tone,I have had BBE S&T,Ampeg,Sansamp,Eden Navigator,SWR and finally have settled with 2 handwired units "Low End".
I would recommend starting with a Sansamp RPM or RBI,as for Amps I have been using a Carvin DCML2000 I really like that the Carvin DCM amps are only 10.5 inches deep so you dont have to have the standard 17 or 19 inch bulky racks.
Steve

Captain Keys · #7 12-07-2010, 10:01 AM

Steve that website is extremely helpful. Thank you.

greenboy · #8 12-07-2010, 10:02 AM

Hey guys, none of the "driver size" stuff has much to do with the fEarfuls. The 15/6 for all intents and purposes is larger, louder 12/6. The two have the same tonal profile. No difference in low frequency reach (or phase), no significant difference in midrange character.

One is just capable of going louder than the other. And takes up more room. Which is just as it should be.

KratosNL · #9 12-07-2010, 10:05 AM

He Greenboy, thx for the information, larger and louder seems to be the thing for me xd. So a 15/6 is what it's going to be. Might add a 1 however.

@ Captain keys, I think you should be able to get a warm tone from most pre-amps, although looking into a tube pre-amp might help a bit. I'm currently looking at a demeter VTBP-201S pre-amp i should be able to get for around 400 euro's. Pre-power setups are really cost efficient i've found.

pbd · #10 12-07-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Keys

Thanks for the info pbd. May I ask what kind of tone you prefer?

I like a vintage tone with a bit of edge to it, not a sizzle, but a little hair like you get from tubes

Todd

Captain Keys · #11 12-07-2010, 10:06 AM

That's nice to hear. In my experience many commercial 15 inch cabs I have tried out have sounded too boomy to me. I always assumed it was due to the driver size. What is the real problem?

Captain Keys · #12 12-07-2010, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbd

I like a vintage tone with a bit of edge to it, not a sizzle, but a little hair like you get from tubes

Todd

Thanks man. Hmm..."Hair". I'm going to start using that.

greenboy · #13 12-07-2010, 10:11 AM

Boom that is hard to eradicate with EQ? Too small a box for the driver often tuned too high, and no damping material lining the inside of the enclosure.

mowburger · #14 12-07-2010, 10:12 AM

I am seriously considering going seperate PRE - Poweramp, for two reasons. #1 I love uber clean bass sounds, I'm not into growly/grity tone so going with something that provides a ton of watts will have a higher headroom than my current GK 700RBII with 480w @ 4 ohms and hopefully a much cleaner tone at high volume. and... #2 The versatility a poweramp will provide me in how many cabs I can run, and different volumes of different cabs. I like the idea of a modular system in that for small rooms I can use a 210 tilted back, medium rooms I can use a 115 AND a 210 (with different level settings for each cab). And for very large rooms and outdoor gigs I could run 4 cabinets if I wanted to! Or even dump a ton of watts into a 810! It just seems a more versitile way to go for me. It sounds like you might favour the same cleanliness to your tone as well, nice round low "BASS" sound. The SansAmp VT might be a good choice for that and the "Deluxe" model has an XLR out to go to board as well. But you can also just switch Pre's to get different tones, instead of different Amp-Heads, of course you can make different heads sound different with pedals, but that doesn't give you all the possabilitys with running different Ohmage/cab levels, shoot with a poweramp-preamp setup you could run stereo effects. of course this is all IMO. lol good luck!

masonsjax · #15 12-07-2010, 10:14 AM

I believe the real problem is that commercial builders tend to put larger drivers in boxes that are far too small, making them very boomy and muddy sounding. That of course leads people to blame the driver size. fEarful cabs do not suffer from that problem. However your rig sounds through high quality studio monitors, or high end headphones is how it sounds through fEarful cabs, but you can feel it more.

masonsjax · #16 12-07-2010, 10:16 AM

My pre/power amp rig is extremely clean, hifi sound, especially through a fEarful. For situations that call for more tubey vintage tone, I just stomp on an overdrive pedal. I'm looking for a VT bass to fill that role now, but I've had good results with other brands too.

Captain Keys · #17 12-07-2010, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masonsjax

I believe the real problem is that commercial builders tend to put larger drivers in boxes that are far too small, making them very boomy and muddy sounding. That of course leads people to blame the driver size. fEarful cabs do not suffer from that problem. However your rig sounds through high quality studio monitors, or high end headphones is how it sounds through fEarful cabs, but you can feel it more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

Boom that is hard to eradicate with EQ? Too small a box for the driver often tuned too high, and no damping material lining the inside of the enclosure.

Ah that explains it. And all this time I've avoided 15s like the plague. Thanks for the information. While we're on the subject greenboy, I just wanted to say thank you for all the work you've done designing the fEarful cabs. They look fantastic, and from what I've heard they blow almost anything else out of the water sound wise.

Queg · #18 12-07-2010, 10:21 AM

I've been considering this same setup as a rehearsal/small rig: Crown XLS / fEarful 12/6 (Using the crossover capabilities of the XLS). My intention is to use the relatively inexpensive Aguilar Tone Hammer pedal as the preamp section.. it has a warm fat tone with a switchable overdrive circuit and a decent DI. Apparently Aguilar thought this was a good idea as well as they're using the Tone Hammer circuit as preamp for their new micro amp.

greenboy · #19 12-07-2010, 10:24 AM

Tone Hammer? That might beat the VT. I don't really keep up with this stuff because my personal rig is sorted, but reports have been that the VT has a lot of default midrange scoop and bass cut built in.

KratosNL · #20 12-07-2010, 10:26 AM

My new rehearsal/gig rig is probably going to be a Demeter VTBP-201S -> Crown XLS -> Fearful 15/6/1, should be tone heaven xd. I'm just not sure about building a normal fearful 15 or a FearB 15, since for one band i only downtune to c, but for the other all the way to F#.