power amp selection for mixed rig

[Gearhead17]

Originally Posted by Bluzeman90

Thanks for the responses guys!

I've been doing some research and some calculations looking at power amps because I'm getting a lot of different opinions on matching watts power to watts cabinet. The 810 is 800 watts, as I understand it, that is a constant, doesn't change. Now we get into the headroom issue. Crown explains that you want x amount of db spl extra for peaks, but should I realistically limit the amp to 800 watts so the peaks go over into "program power". Or should I get 1600 watts and run it to taste. Our even less so the peaks don't exceed the 800watts rating?

Without getting too technical, get an amp that can dish out a lot of power. When you want to use a different cab in the future, you will have a bunch of power at your finger tips. Run the 1600 watt amp into the 810e - use your ears and listen to the speaker flapping, distortion, making popping sounds; turn down the low end and/or the volume to compensate when you hear that. You will be just fine. More watts give you the ability to push the amp without running out of power causing the amp to distort. Clean headroom here!

[Bluzeman90]

2 excellent posts! Thanks for the insight!

Now I've got a question, (getting there, promise ) I read on one of these threads, can't find it, that bridging a power amp is a bad idea for reasons including double voltage (?). I'm wondering if I could save some cash and get a 1600w bridged at 4 ohm amp to run the 810, then I'd have the ability at smaller shows to run a smaller cab in just one channel (ex. 410 with 500 watts) any thoughts on that idea?

It's so hard to not just rant all my questions here you guys are so informative! I do try to research as much as I'm able though...

[Downunderwonder]

Run us through these small bar gigs you are doing. Small is 100 people or 300? You Americans have a different perspective on small.

1600W into a SVT 8x10 is a toast it or a blow the cones into the grill situation ready packaged. SVT amp is 300W and some tube saturation on top.

How about a nice pair of 2x12 vertical?

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by Gearhead17

Without getting too technical, get an amp that can dish out a lot of power. When you want to use a different cab in the future, you will have a bunch of power at your finger tips. Run the 1600 watt amp into the 810e - use your ears and listen to the speaker flapping, distortion, making popping sounds; turn down the low end and/or the volume to compensate when you hear that. You will be just fine. More watts give you the ability to push the amp without running out of power causing the amp to distort. Clean headroom here!

Baloney, dangerous and foolish baloney.

The one sensible part was in the middle: "use your ears and listen to the speaker flapping, distortion, making popping sounds; turn down the low end and/or the volume to compensate when you hear that."

But note that when the speakers are NOT making those noises, they are receiving far, far less than their maximum wattage rating. IOW, by the time you have turned the amp down to the point where the speaker-farting noises go away, you have totally ruled out all that extra wattage! The extra power is doing you NO GOOD, and is not even being used at all. If you have a problem with the power section of the amp distorting, the solution is not to run more power into the same speakers! That's like asking the cones to go shoot themselves. If you need more volume, you need more speakers--and if you need more power, you also need more speakers. That last bit about clean headroom is a joke if your speakers can't take the power without farting out and eventually ripping up.

[Gearhead17]

Bongomania is right, I am a little off here. However, I am looking at the future here and saying that getting a high powered power amp is a good investment for future bass rigs or if you decide to use it in an eventual PA system.

I am also living by the idea: better to have it and not need it rather than to need it and not have it.

[Bluzeman90]

Thanks bongo, gear head, and down under, so it seems to me that getting a power amp rated very similar if not slightly more that the cabinet is ideal for safety and maximum performance, therefore bridging would be unnecessary. For example, I'm looking at the peavey ipr 3000 dsp and the crown xls 2500. Pretty similar amps as far as my knowledge goes... since the cabinet is 800 and the output of both is about 800 @ 4 ohms, sounds like a good idea. I mean, even in a pa, that's a good amount of power.

I'm definitely getting a compressor and rack eq to help contain unnecessary farts. (Pretty sure I'm doing that right soooo hopefully I'm in the right arena.

Anyone have any experience with the two power amps mentioned above?

[cableguy]

Originally Posted by bgavin

A quality two-channel power amp (mine are QSC PLX) combined with an active crossover (mine are Rane) will do what you want.


The Carvin HD series "might" fit into a more shallow effects rack.
Check the measurements closely to be sure.
I've not used the Carvin, but the design is appealing, and the price is right.

By design, a sealed 810 won't have a big bottom. It is what it is.
The charts I've seen are not authoritative, but appear to roll off at the sealed rate of 12db/octave from 100 Hz and down.
You have to do your homework to figure out your requirements in the bottom octave.
Many players don't require much between 40 and 80 Hz, others do. YMMV.

3015LF drivers have an Fs around 42~43 Hz.
These are wonderful drivers (I own several), but they are limited to the 4-string low E under high power use.
The current version of 3015LF requires nearly 8 cubic feet to reach its full bass potential. This is a BIG box.
Check into the response charts for the fEarful at 40 Hz and notice the roll-off.

For almost 10 years I played a pair of 1x15 true subs + tens + rack combination for the big bottom with a 4-string.
This is useless in bars, but very useful outdoors for gigs without big PA support.
Hauling all those cabs and rack is heavy and annoying, especially in bad weather.

Think it through before yielding to GAS and rushing into something expensive.

I have the Carvin HD1500 and it does fit into a SKB Shallow X rack. I did have to trim a small piece of plastice for the bridge post to make it fit. For the HD series I had to put a 1/2 spacer behind the rack ears, with the DCM series I didn't. But I have a 3 space rack with 1500W@4 with pre coming in at 20lbs.

I also will have to chime in with a 3015LF & 6mid cab love. Whether it be fEARful, Barefaced or others, I have found this is the best way for me to get big lows as well as a great sound in a small package. I know a lot of people like to hate on them and they ain't for everyone, but I'll keep rocking my fearful.

[Bluzeman90]

For anyone who is paying attention (this thread is a little old now) i bought the Peavey ipr 3000 with dsp and absolutely love it. The vt bass is an incredibly powerful preamp and is great besides the manufacturer defect (first switch sticks and doesn't work anymore) but it will be replaced.

And anyone who wants to know, the Ampeg 810e will take 900 Watts (not quite broken in) and sound absolutely incredible. Just so you know