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10-18-2011, 08:24 AM
| | Registered User
Endorsed By - Warwick, Boss/Roland, Fender, Westone, Korg & Line6 | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: United Kingdom | |  Power Conditioners - Your thoughts?
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Greetings TalkBass Members who read this.
I am looking at getting a Power Conditioner for my Rig / Rack set up and was wondering what everyone thought of them?
What ones are the best for the lowest cost?
What ones are rubbish and to stay away from?
How they work exactly?
How the Voltage control works on them?
Using them in different countries while touring?
And any problems with using them?
Another major thing I would like more information on is any products out there that go between the power on stage at the venue and the whole bands gear? Something to help with bad wiring and noise from the venue's power?
Many thanks Guys and I look forward to reading your posts, thoughts and talking more with you all about this topic.
Shaun Rayment
(UK)
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10-18-2011, 08:42 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Seweracuse, NY | |
__________________ fEARful: for those who want something better: http://greenboy.us/fEARful/ For Sale (locally only): Bergantino HT115 with Cover: $500.00. PM me about it.
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10-18-2011, 08:47 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Westerly, RI | | some people will tell you that you don't need one, and a $12 power strip will be sufficient... nah, not me. when you spend enough on your gear, you might as well get something that will actually work. i don't know the exact details, but when i was first building my rack, multiple people told me it was critical.
most of them use this exact one, as do i. FurmanSound.com - Pro A/V Product - M-8x2
they also make the m8-lx with built in lights that you can pull out and play with. i didn't go for that because it looks kinda silly and is just another thing that will probably break. then they have the globalist model with the lights and digital amp meter. that one is like $130, almost twice as much as the m8x2. didn't really see a need for that either, but i guess if your an elite and can afford it...
i saved the money. got the basic furman one that works great, and now i'm looking into adding a locking 1u rack drawer to secure all my prized possessions while at practice and in the club.
spomeone else can tell you exactly how a good power conditioner works.
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10-18-2011, 08:50 AM
|  | put a bird on it | | Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Minnesota | | | cons: it's an overpriced surge protector
pros: it's rackmountable |
10-18-2011, 08:51 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: St. Louis | | | There is a difference between a power conditioner and a voltage regulator. Something like the Furman M8 ( which is what I use) is just a power conditioner, which means it doesn't really regulate the power, it filters it and protects equipment from power surges. They are very convenient for a rack system since they have all the outlets you will need right there. Something like a Monster Power center, which regulates voltage making sure your equipment gets the proper voltage, will cost you 10 times more. Do you need one? I don't know. Do you play in a lot of places with sketchy wiring? Is your rig particularly sensitive to exacting voltages?
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10-18-2011, 08:52 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Palm Coast, Florida | | | They are NOTHING more then a glorified power strip.
If you really want one that actually "conditions" your power, be prepared to pay around 1K !
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10-18-2011, 08:56 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Seweracuse, NY | | The power conditioner industry is based upon user fear rather than actual need or use.
Your amp has all the line filtering it needs, and unless you're buying a multi-thousand dollar heavy weight unit, you're getting a powerstrip in a fancy case with fun lights...in which case, you might as well just get something from these folks: Funk Logic | DD-301 Digilog Dynamicator
__________________ fEARful: for those who want something better: http://greenboy.us/fEARful/ For Sale (locally only): Bergantino HT115 with Cover: $500.00. PM me about it.
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10-18-2011, 09:07 AM
| | Registered User
Endorsed By - Warwick, Boss/Roland, Fender, Westone, Korg & Line6 | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: United Kingdom | | Thanks for replying fast so far guys on this.
I do agree there is an awful lot out there debating the "Power Conditioner". To be honest its fried my brain today looking at it all. I just thought id come in here and ask it how it was to try and make some sense of it all. :-)
I have been to many venues where the power has seamed bad, ie had "hum" in the signals of my rig and other members gear in the band. Also a couple of times my Line6 POD XT Live floor unit (I use for my dirty/distortion tone layered with my clean) kept dropping out with power and going crazy at a few venues.
I know its not anything with my gear, as when I've been at studios everything is crystal clear.
So really want I need is something that will protect my gear from bad power and also something to help deal with any "hum" that may be encountered again at venues. I currently use a Belkin Surge Protector 6 way power extension. I have always used this, even when having the "hum" issues and power dropping out on the Line6.
Im not fussed if its rackmountable, I just need it to be low cost and to do the job well. Something to clean up my tone and protect my gear.
Whats the Furman SS6B? Just something like my Belkin? Furman SS-6B Surge Block: Shop Accessories & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend
Or has it got the ability to clean up the noise also?
What power regulator products are out there that are cheap but do the same if not better job to all these over hyped "Power Conditioners" ?
Cheers for your continued help guys
Shaun
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10-18-2011, 09:10 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Westerly, RI | | Quote:
Originally Posted by BurningSkies  The power conditioner industry is based upon user fear rather than actual need or use. | like i said, globalist basterds! 
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10-18-2011, 09:16 AM
|  | Banned
Endorsing Artist: HCAF | | Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The Woodlands, TX | | | A real power conditioner is huge, weighs a ton, and costs even more.
The Furman or Monster rack strips are not worth the $$ unless you get a bare bones one that basically just lets you plug everything in. We have one in our rack but it's basically just to plug all our junk into it-
2 guitar preamps, 2 guitar power amps, BBE unit, my bass amp. Way easier than the 6-7 plugs we'd need otherwise. So in that sense yes they are helpful, just buy the $20 ones.
The ones w/ the voltage readouts are nice but you can easily live without it. |
10-18-2011, 09:19 AM
| | Registered User
Endorsed By - Warwick, Boss/Roland, Fender, Westone, Korg & Line6 | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: United Kingdom | | Quote:
Originally Posted by rockstarbassist A real power conditioner is huge, weighs a ton, and costs even more.
The Furman or Monster rack strips are not worth the $$ unless you get a bare bones one that basically just lets you plug everything in. We have one in our rack but it's basically just to plug all our junk into it-
2 guitar preamps, 2 guitar power amps, BBE unit, my bass amp. Way easier than the 6-7 plugs we'd need otherwise. So in that sense yes they are helpful, just buy the $20 ones.
The ones w/ the voltage readouts are nice but you can easily live without it. |
What is it that you have for the band to plug everything into?
Shaun
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10-18-2011, 09:26 AM
|  | Tuxedo BassŪ - That's Me! | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hamilton, Montana | | As far as efficacy and need - I guess one can do without a power conditioner.
I believe in them even if you get into a non-venue (bedrooms and cellars count too), it's usually a good idea to use one.
Homes can be the worst offender to the electrical system - a lot of homes are 'added-onto' and circuits are piggy backed and bootlegged in and there's a real problem.
The place I'm in has a slight float of about 22 volts somewhere that I gave up on trying to find, and this isn't an uncommon problem in any older home or even an old/new business.
OK - so what's the big story? A conditioner is maybe not necessary - but one's always a good idea.
When my wife would run one of her vacuum cleaners (she has a collection of them - as many or more than I have basses) they always made noise in my amp. Adding the conditioner took all that out instantly. Adding a conditioner didn't do anything for cutting back on her collection though. <sigh> Switch 'pop's' were gone and when the water well cuts in, there's no start-up noise from it now either.
Transients in supply voltage and noises on the line are always problematic - my Furman PL-8 rackmount solves every electrical noise problem I've had so far.
As far as the lights being fragile --- they are not. The whole think is semi-Abrams tank in quality and the light tubes should not be very high on anyone's radar if they think they are anywhere near breakable.
The only other thing I do is put a GFCI circuit tester  - the one with the LED lights in it - into the distribution strip in my softcase pedal board to make sure that polarity and grounds are intact. 
That strip ↑ is after the Furman, and it's just for additional receptacles for my One Spot and maybe another amp if someone needs another outlet.
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10-18-2011, 09:30 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Switzerland | | | Shaun...40 years of regular gigging without a power conditioner. Bars, clubs, dives, outdoors, indoors, generators, 110 volt, 240 volt, 230 volt. Power failures indoors. Power failures outdoors. Canada, USA, Persian Gulf, France, Switzerland.
I guess I've just been lucky.
Save your money.
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10-18-2011, 09:36 AM
|  | Keepin' the Groove Alive ! | | Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Stax 1966 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by bmc Shaun...40 years of regular gigging without a power conditioner. Bars, clubs, dives, outdoors, indoors, generators, 110 volt, 240 volt, 230 volt. Power failures indoors. Power failures outdoors. Canada, USA, Persian Gulf, France, Switzerland.
I guess I've just been lucky.
Save your money. | Could'nt have said it better, although I have'nt been out of the USA, I sure have played in a number of dives and dumps. The only thing I've ever had to put up with is neon beer sign noise, and the only thing that works for that is to turn them off.
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10-18-2011, 09:40 AM
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Endorsed By - Warwick, Boss/Roland, Fender, Westone, Korg & Line6 | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: United Kingdom | | Quote:
Originally Posted by SurferJoe46 As far as efficacy and need - I guess one can do without a power conditioner.
I believe in them even if you get into a non-venue (bedrooms and cellars count too), it's usually a good idea to use one.
Homes can be the worst offender to the electrical system - a lot of homes are 'added-onto' and circuits are piggy backed and bootlegged in and there's a real problem.
The place I'm in has a slight float of about 22 volts somewhere that I gave up on trying to find, and this isn't an uncommon problem in any older home or even an old/new business.
OK - so what's the big story? A conditioner is maybe not necessary - but one's always a good idea.
When my wife would run one of her vacuum cleaners (she has a collection of them - as many or more than I have basses) they always made noise in my amp. Adding the conditioner took all that out instantly. Adding a conditioner didn't do anything for cutting back on her collection though. <sigh> Switch 'pop's' were gone and when the water well cuts in, there's no start-up noise from it now either.
Transients in supply voltage and noises on the line are always problematic - my Furman PL-8 rackmount solves every electrical noise problem I've had so far.
As far as the lights being fragile --- they are not. The whole think is semi-Abrams tank in quality and the light tubes should not be very high on anyone's radar if they think they are anywhere near breakable.
The only other thing I do is put a GFCI circuit tester - the one with the LED lights in it - into the distribution strip in my softcase pedal board to make sure that polarity and grounds are intact.
That strip ↑ is after the Furman, and it's just for additional receptacles for my One Spot and maybe another amp if someone needs another outlet. |
Hey man, your story made me chuckle about your wife's hovers. :-)
So with your Furman, you would say its certainly cleared up any "hum" and noise interference that once was there at home?
Would you say this has also been the same at venues to?
What do you do if your Circuit Tester is showing a problem?
Many thanks mate
Shaun
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10-18-2011, 09:42 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Switzerland | | | I'm not an electrician, so I can't load into a room, look around at the freshly painted walls and make the call that the wiring is iffy. Furthermore, isn't there some sort of building code, inspections, insurance requirements to satisfy insurers that everything is up to scratch?
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10-18-2011, 09:45 AM
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Endorsed By - Warwick, Boss/Roland, Fender, Westone, Korg & Line6 | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: United Kingdom | | Quote:
Originally Posted by jnewmark Could'nt have said it better, although I have'nt been out of the USA, I sure have played in a number of dives and dumps. The only thing I've ever had to put up with is neon beer sign noise, and the only thing that works for that is to turn them off. | You have been lucky guys :-)
A couple of times i had a strange "hum" rotary sound coming through on my dirty channel. Never could find out what exactly that was.. I think it only ever happened at 2 venues on our European tour last year. But i know its done it at at least 1 UK venue in previous tours.
Anyone know what that could be?
Shaun
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10-18-2011, 09:45 AM
|  | Why Can't We All Just Get Along? | | Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Somewhere near Raleigh | | | I bought my JuiceGoose for the cool lights...and since it's rack mounted with my tuner, my kids can't "borrow" either for their gigs.
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10-18-2011, 09:46 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Seweracuse, NY | | Quote:
Originally Posted by bmc I'm not an electrician, so I can't load into a room, look around at the freshly painted walls and make the call that the wiring is iffy. Furthermore, isn't there some sort of building code, inspections, insurance requirements to satisfy insurers that everything is up to scratch? | The biggest worry you have is that an outlet is miss-wired, which is why I always check the outlets I'm plugging into as well. And not just mine but also the ones the other band members and hopefully the PA gear is plugged into.
A crossed ground, or a couple of outlets wired reverse of each other and you can electrocute yourself or a band member.
The lil 6 dollar outlet tester that SurferJoe shows should be something that every electric musician carries.
When I find one that's not right I go right to the sound man and ask where else he can run power from.
__________________ fEARful: for those who want something better: http://greenboy.us/fEARful/ For Sale (locally only): Bergantino HT115 with Cover: $500.00. PM me about it.
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10-18-2011, 09:47 AM
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Endorsed By - Warwick, Boss/Roland, Fender, Westone, Korg & Line6 | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: United Kingdom | | Quote:
Originally Posted by ack I bought my JuiceGoose for the cool lights...and since it's rack mounted with my tuner, my kids can't "borrow" either for their gigs. | Is it just a light system?
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