Power - Operating off a gas generator???

[Calaverasgrande]

The problem with getting power from a nearby building is that it may mean that EVERYTHING is on one single 15 or 20 amp circuit. This can get close to fuse blowing pretty easy with PA and a bass amp.
Also your ground reference is way off when you are at the end of a 100ft extension. That is assuming that some jackalope didn't pinch off the ground prong!
I would certainly put a plus one on securing a ground with the generator. Copper pipe, sledge hammer, 10awg stranded or solid wire. Nuff said. I have made do with clamping the ground to a large metal structure that was grounded in the past. At one remote location in CA there is a bridge that the Army corp of engineers built as a practice run or something? It has no road up to it, just a bridge over a dry creek. Put a band up there and the audience in the dry creek bed. Fun ensues.

[dscott11]

I read through a bunch of threads here on generator power and was a bit concerned... I ended up borrowing a Kawasaki GE500AS from a friend. Ran a 12Guage 50' cord and pounded a spike into the ground. Also had a couple of 100W flood lights for a load before powering up the gear. Ran from about 5pm to Midnight on about 3 of 5 gallons of gas. The noise was about 70db but not even noticeable while playing.

This turned out to be a fun gig in a huge beautiful landscaped yard.

I would definately feel better with some line conditioning though!!!!

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

What line conditioning would make you feel better?

[Bassamatic]

I believe that the MarkBass amps have a switching power supply - that makes them quite immune to power line issues of noise, frequency and voltage over quite a large range.

Anyone know more about the MB power supplies?

[chrissteiner]

I have done a considerable amount of research on this topic and have personal experience with running electrical band equipment off of gas powered generators.
Most of the generators that are put into service for this kind of use are the kind a homeowner would by for backup when power gets knocked out by a storm or something and NOT commercial grade generators which sometimes have onboard voltage regulators.
VOLTAGE REGULATORS ARE NOT THE SAME AS POWER CONDITIONERS!!!
There is alot of misunderstanding along this line of information and quite a few folks believe that a power conditioner and or surge protector is all you need to protect your expensive electronics form damage that can be caused by operating it at something other than the voltage that it was designed to operate at.
I ran my SWR BASS 350 (tube pre-amp) off of generator power for two sets of music one evening when the fire hall we were playing in lost power. The result was a $230 repair bill for replacing the power amp section of my head. Another evening, our guitar player ran his vintage Fender Twin Reverb off of a 65' yachts generator. While we were docked and plugged into shore power, he had the usual clean and full tone he was used to hearing. Upon departing the dock and switching to generator power, you could actually hear the amp "grunting" to try and produce it's natural tone. NOT GOOD! Danny ended needing a re-tube and bias after that...another $200 repair bill.
Voltage regulators are not cheap. A new FURMAN voltage regulator can run you up to around $800 - $900 BUT it will save you hundreds in repairs over time if you do alot of outdoor/remote gigs where house power of 120 volts is not available.
It's like trying to run a gasoline car on diesel fuel...
Another issue that has come up is LONG runs of extension cords. A typical "Harry Homeowner" type of extension cord LOSES 3% of the line voltage for every 100 feet of length.
We recently had a run of 100 yards at an outdoor event in a barn and the volt meter read 120 volts at the outlet end and 109 at the plug end.
Running any piece of band equipment at undervoltage is just asking for trouble eventually. You may be able to get away with it once or twice, but know this, it is extremely hard on your gear and you'll eventually pay for it!
I was lucky enough to find a FURMAN voltage regulator on e-bay for $300 used and it has been the best money I've spent on gear ever.
The bands that I play with get an average of 3 or 4 gigs every year that we need generator power for or long extension cord runs for and this has totally solved the issue!
TUBE AMPS are particularly susceptible to power supply sags and or over voltage issues which is the other issue.
The best option is to have a voltage regulator which also has a power conditioner built in or you can buy them seperately and use them in combination. You are guaranteed 120 volts (+/- 5%).
Rock on!

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by tekdiver500ft

If you use a pure sine wave type generator and a power conditioner, then you'll get better power than that found in many venues. If you don't, you'll eventually kill your gear. Most of our equipment is fairly sensitive electronically, so you really don't want to feed it dirty power.

Eh. It goes into a transformer, a rectifier, and some caps. Nothing particularly sensitive.
Worst thing you can do is feed it undervoltage for a length of time.

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by chrissteiner

Upon departing the dock and switching to generator power, you could actually hear the amp "grunting" to try and produce it's natural tone. NOT GOOD! Danny ended needing a re-tube and bias after that...another $200 repair bill.

'Danny' got ripped off. Eddie Van Halen used to deliberately run his amps from low-voltage sources to get them to strain and get his tone. No harm done.

[Calaverasgrande]

I have been using the $400 tripplite power regulator (lc2400 IIRC?) for the last 15 years or so. The noise suppression is pretty good, but the ability to accomodate the shifting voltage supply towards a target 117 volts is great.Too bad it weighs like 50 lbs.
As far as never playing without one, well back in the 90's I played a lot of gigs in the boonies on generators. Worst we ever had was a lot of noise on the tube amps (fenders esp!).

The only time I've seen a generator fry amps is when a building I lived in and rented rehearsal space out of got its power cut by public works accidentally. The landlord provided a giant commercial generator while they fixed the power. Dang generator kept running out of diesel and dying, which did something bad electrically.
That thing damaged half the amps of the bands at my place, and the landlord was a scumbag so I was basically out of business.
Oh well, living at a rehearsal studio blows anyway.

[JimmyM]

When I was 17, I played a party with a generator supplying power for us. It immediately blew out my board. Never again will any piece of gear I own ever see a generator unless it's one of those for-real generators you see at big concerts.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

When I was 17, back in the Eocene, I played a party with a generator supplying power for us. It immediately blew out my board. Never again will any piece of gear I own ever see a generator unless it's one of those for-real generators you see at big concerts.

Fixed.

[JimmyM]

Ha ha. And you're way older than me, so double ha ha!

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Fixed.

Harsh. I would have at least given him the Pleistocene. Rise of Homo-Erectus and all.

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by meatwad

I played a show once on a generator, and all went well until it ran out of gas. We never knew if it was a power surge or what, but our guitarist's amp never worked again after that.

This x100. Make damn sure that generator is topped off before you start playing. Even if you have to buy the fuel and put it in yourself.

[Phalex]

Originally Posted by dmusic148

Harsh. I would have at least given him the Pleistocene. Rise of Homo-Erectus and all.

Huh huh huh! You said "Rise"!

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by Phalex

Huh huh huh! You said "Rise"!

I did. I said it.

[azureblue]

they should supply a voltage regulator that has a battery in case of voltage sags, and that will insure proper 60hz AC. And i would strongly suggest getting a damage to equipment contract from them. If the generator damages your gear, then they have to fix it. Don't trust a generator - I, too was in a band that lost an amp when the generator stopped during a song. The AC and voltage sagged and an Ampeg V4 bit the dust, mid set.

[HolmeBass]

Hmm, funny. I've played scores of gigs off of generators and I've never heard of any casualties. I will say my Mesa M2000 was very sensitive to running off of generators- often noisy, and always running out of gas at the loudest part- drop the big open E and I'd hear the Mesa sag and sort of cough/sputter half-cut off, just for that note. But I just figured I was running out of current, sharing a 20 A circuit with all of the amplifiers, including our powered monitors. Mains on another circuit, lights on the 3rd circuit. Seemed to work ok with just a home-owner style Honda generator, which are nice b/c they are not too loud.

[Calaverasgrande]

I think we are talking about different types of gigs.
When I have done professional gigs run off a generator, it was the type that tows behind a large truck and needs an electrician to hook up to the kind of AC outlets normal humans use. Those are usually pretty solid for AC. I used to hang out with a house/techno DJ/promoter that went out of his way to rent big commercial generators for his events. He swore the regular municipal AC was saggy when he was trying to pull a few 10,000's of watts out of the power lines. He did use a lot of subs though.

The 2nd kind of gig is the backyard, campout or picnic event. It is invariably some buddies generator that was borrowed. We used to do a lot of gigs with one we bought at Kragen Autoparts! (remember Kragen?).
When I've done those kinds of gigs the power cables were always bs. Ground pins broken off. Duct taped spliced etc.
I've never seen anyone using one of those even attempt to make a ground connection, or even check the gas before they start!

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by dmusic148

Harsh. I would have at least given him the Pleistocene. Rise of Homo-Erectus and all.

Yes, there were proto-humans in the Pleistocene. Jimmy pre-dates those.

[Hobobob]

Originally Posted by Calaverasgrande

At one remote location in CA there is a bridge that the Army corp of engineers built as a practice run or something? It has no road up to it, just a bridge over a dry creek. Put a band up there and the audience in the dry creek bed. Fun ensues.

You must tell me where this is...