Power Protection

[dBPete]

I've been starting to play at different venues lately, and (call me paranoid) I've been a little concerned about plugging my amp into a bad circuit. I've seen power conditioners that will help filter out some AC hum, but I'm wondering if I should tote around my own GFI or breaker. Any advice?

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

I doubt that any power "conditioner" will help filter out some AC hum. But what you should have in your gig kit is one of these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Receptacle_tester

[dBPete]

Yea, the guy at guitar center said the conditioner would help with AC hum, I've not looked into it much though.

I've seen the testers you pointed out. But I'm thinking more along the lines of a GFI or breaker. I was wondering if anyone had a preference.

[Aceonbass]

I use a Monster Power Pro 900. I got it at Best Buy in their musical instruments dept. on sale for $80.00 (normally $100.00). I've had no issues with it or all of my gear plugged into it, and the little LED light that tells you you ground is okay told me that my drummers house where we practice has a ground that's not okay. My old Furman PL Pluss II didn't do that.

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Originally Posted by dBPete

Yea, the guy at guitar center said the conditioner would help with AC hum, I've not looked into it much though.

The guy at GC hasn't looked into it either.

I've seen the testers you pointed out. But I'm thinking more along the lines of a GFI or breaker. I was wondering if anyone had a preference.

An outlet strip will usually have a circuit breaker that protects against overcurrent. It's good to have seen receptacle testers, but better to use them.

[Wes Whitmore]

Im currently using a cheap power strip that tells you if you are plugged into a grounded circuit, but it doesn't tell you polarity like a circuit tester will. It's better than nothing...
Wes

[dincz]

Originally Posted by dBPete

I've seen power conditioners that will help filter out some AC hum

AC power is hum. You filter out the hum and you've got no power.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by dBPete

I've seen power conditioners that will help filter out some AC hum

You've seen some that claim to do so. They don't, at least not any better than what's already built into your gear.
Do a search, this subject comes up almost as often as underpowering, and the benefits of 'power conditioners' are just as mythical.
If you need to clean up your wiring get a power strip w/surge protector. Anything costing more than $29.95 is money down the drain.

[cavemusic]

There are a lot of misconceptions about "power conditioners" and what they can and cannot do. Don't buy one until you've done research on them. And be careful because there is a lot of misinformation out there. The chief cause of hum is a ground loop when you plug into a DI and your amp, and a power conditioner won't do anything for that despite what the GC guy says.

[mintondm]

Originally Posted by dincz

AC power is hum. You filter out the hum and you've got no power.

^^^^^^
Sooort of true, lol, I think this was more joking, but what you would be concerned with is "noise" that develops in AC power over long lengths of wire. Not normally a problem unless you have opposing wavelengths running through cables that are loomed together in a bundle. eventually that 50/60 Hz becomes much less consistent. This normally isn't an issue unless you have some serious power cables running long lengths together.

Also remember basic electrical theory: The longer the wire, the more impedance/resistance, the "dirtier" the voltage at the point of use. In other words, that AC waveform is less stable and smooth "clean". Make sure your power cables and wires are no longer than needed and avoid extension cords for sensitive equipment! There are reasons that cables aren't 100 ft on your head! You have to consider voltage drop.

Originally Posted by Bob Lee (QSC)

The guy at GC hasn't looked into it either.

An outlet strip will usually have a circuit breaker that protects against overcurrent. It's good to have seen receptacle testers, but better to use them.

See below, this is a really nice option as opposed to just a 15 dollar junky strip from Walmart IMO! lol


http://www.guitarcenter.com/Furman-M...LAID=439948233

Originally Posted by Bob Lee (QSC)

I doubt that any power "conditioner" will help filter out some AC hum. But what you should have in your gig kit is one of these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Receptacle_tester

Worth investing in if you're playing seedy bars that look like they barely afford the rent or look like they are 150 years old!


Also doesn't hurt calculating the FLA (Full load amps) of the equipment that you have. Add up all the "Amp" ratings on the stickers of everything you are powering and be aware of that number. That's the "worse case scenario" for your rigs current draw if EVERYTHING were pulling it's MAX power.

If you're really concerned of overloading circuits, having bad grounds, or popping a breaker, ask the owner/manager to check the breakers and make sure that they have enough capacity for everyone on the legs that they have running to the stage area.


Just my two cents though! I've only been an electrical engineer for a few years though! :-)

[cavemusic]

There are many different ways power or circuits can be "bad" and so there are many different devices available. This article will help explain it somewhat: What is bad power??.

Those cheap power bars likely have small cheap surge suppressors built in, so they may only operate once, and then you're unprotected. Also, they may only have protection between two connections, not all three. More expensive surge protectors may have higher joule ratings, and thus would be more likely to survive repeated hits. You have to look at the specifications to know for sure. Some power bars and "conditioners" also have some radio frequency interference (RFI) and electromagnetic interference (EMI) filters.

I never bother with a surge suppressor for my bass amps. Their power supply sections are usually pretty robust anyway. I do use surge suppressors (like a Furman) for my sound gear/computer since the electronics are more susceptible.

[mintondm]

Originally Posted by cavemusic

There are many different ways power or circuits can be "bad" and so there are many different devices available. This article will help explain it somewhat: What is bad power??.

Those cheap power bars likely have small cheap surge suppressors built in, so they may only operate once, and then you're unprotected. Also, they may only have protection between two connections, not all three. More expensive surge protectors may have higher joule ratings, and thus would be more likely to survive repeated hits. You have to look at the specifications to know for sure. Some power bars and "conditioners" also have some radio frequency interference (RFI) and electromagnetic interference (EMI) filters.

I never bother with a surge suppressor for my bass amps. Their power supply sections are usually pretty robust anyway. I do use surge suppressors (like a Furman) for my sound gear/computer since the electronics are more susceptible.

+1 Agreed, the cheap ones will not trip constantly, they are not as robust as say, a home circuit breaker that can be tripped several times without the contacts arching.

And yeah, he's an example of overkill:


http://www.guitarcenter.com/Furman-P...68-i1442972.gc

A true "Power Conditioner, more accurately referred to as a "Voltage Regulator" They actually take that crappy dirty house voltage and rectify it into a stable 115VAC 50/60Hz and monitor it for GFI (Ground Fault) and EMI (Noise) issues and filter those out. This is something you expect for like Nine Inch Nails or someone who is using thousands and thousands of dollars in electronics that are more sensitive than sayyyy, your Bass head.

If you're looking for protection that's gonna last, a more robust surge protector that has electronic monitoring, like the one I linked above, that uses monitoring circuits instead of temperature and excessive current before they cut out like the "power Strips". Think of these more as the "clipping" on your head, it cuts it out before it's catastrophic. That's why the are more money and why they are better/more robust IMO.

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Originally Posted by mintondm

See below, this is a really nice option as opposed to just a 15 dollar junky strip from Walmart IMO! lol


http://www.guitarcenter.com/Furman-M...LAID=439948233

No thanks--I'll take the $15 power strip.

[BurningSkies]

More than just 150 year old dives have bad power. There's a whole lot of 'clubs' and venues that have short cut their stage wiring in hopes of saving a few bucks by hiring their 'friends' or a dodgy acquaintance to do their wiring. I mean, what bands are going to notice, right?

I'm with Bob. I carry an outlet tester, just to keep the people in the band safe and lively. I've recently played in places with an errant mis-wired outlet or two. I'd rather check and be safe than find out the hard way, with a dead singer/guitarist on my hands. At one club I pointed it out and the sound 'engineer' said "yeah, I know there's something funky going on with the mic...we've had a few guys comment on it".

I've been on stages, bar corners, outside, gyms, theaters, attics, basements and a number of other venues and never had a rack "power conditioner". They're rackmount snake oil, although I know guys like to have one for the 'look' of a "pro" rig. I would think that this would be mildly more useful, and I don't even go for such activities:

http://www.model42.com/?p=27

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

I would think that this would be mildly more useful, and I don't even go for such activities:

http://www.model42.com/?p=27

I don't even understand what they think that does. A rackmounted herbal vaporizer??!! That has to be a gag, right? Maybe living in NZ has dulled my brain...

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

I don't even understand what they think that does. A rackmounted herbal vaporizer??!! That has to be a gag, right? Maybe living in NZ has dulled my brain...

Its fer-real. Probably more suited to home use rather than stage, I'm guessing.

[mintondm]

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

More than just 150 year old dives have bad power. There's a whole lot of 'clubs' and venues that have short cut their stage wiring in hopes of saving a few bucks by hiring their 'friends' or a dodgy acquaintance to do their wiring. I mean, what bands are going to notice, right?

I'm with Bob. I carry an outlet tester, just to keep the people in the band safe and lively. I've recently played in places with an errant mis-wired outlet or two. I'd rather check and be safe than find out the hard way, with a dead singer/guitarist on my hands. At one club I pointed it out and the sound 'engineer' said "yeah, I know there's something funky going on with the mic...we've had a few guys comment on it".

I've been on stages, bar corners, outside, gyms, theaters, attics, basements and a number of other venues and never had a rack "power conditioner". They're rackmount snake oil, although I know guys like to have one for the 'look' of a "pro" rig. I would think that this would be mildly more useful, and I don't even go for such activities:

http://www.model42.com/?p=27

^^^What the hell is that!?! Lol

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a power strip, it's gonna split power and pop the button if there is a short, but from an electronics point of view, depends on your comfort level... The carry full coverage versus liability only... Ya know?

As far as the rack-mount, I would select it simply to have the power strip with with the equipment it's hooked with. I would use this right in with the rest of the PA equipment under the board in the rack instead of having 6 plugs into some strip hanging on the back of the rack...

Not practical if all I'm doing is plugging in a bare head, but if I have several things in the stack or PA rack, sure, why would I have Walmart protecting a few thousand dollars in electronics? I wouldn't feel reassured!

If all you got is a boss pedal and your 200W head, yeah, they will absorb most crap on their own in their respective transformers.

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Originally Posted by mintondm

why would I have Walmart protecting a few thousand dollars in electronics? I wouldn't feel reassured!

Go to Target or Ace Hardware instead, then. If a decent power strip didn't reassure me, a $150 power "conditioner" wouldn't either.

[DougD]

I've played in places that have bad power using both an el-cheapo power strip, and either a Furman or Alexis rack mount strips. When I used the el-cheapo, I kept having shutdown problems with my amp. In the middle of a song, it would just cut off. Since I've been using the rackmounted strip, I have not had any problems what so ever. I think it's due to the rating of the rack mount over the el-cheapo. Plus the rackmount gives me the added bonus of knowing what power is coming into my system, and lights for dark stages. In some places you can see the power spikes because the numbers will jump up and down. You won't catch me using anything other than a rackmount from now on.

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Due to what rating?