Powered PA speakers for bass?

basswalker2004 · #1 07-27-2011, 08:53 AM

I would really like to hear your thoughts/experiences.

I was sitting at a Flecktones concert a few days ago listening to Vic's sound coming out of the PA speakers and wondered why I haven't seen bass players using them on stage.
I looked online and in my Sweetwater catalog and there are many powered models from QSC, Yamaha, JBL etc. that have powerful Class D power amps, choice of 2 or 3 ways systems, 15", or 12" speakers, and combos of them... Seems to me a little preamp and one of these puppies, would be killer.
So why don't we use them? Wouldn't these speakers give us a full range sound similar to going direct into the board in the studio and out through those full range studio monitors?
cheers
Guy

playerunk · #2 07-27-2011, 09:33 AM

Some players do not want the hi-fi sound that a PA speaker will provide and they like the coloring their bass cabinets give. Others just never consider it because you dont find them in the 'bass' section of the store.

oldcatfish · #3 07-27-2011, 09:39 AM

I used one exclusively for years before finally buying a Roland CB 100 and recently an Eden EX112 extension cab for a bit more fullness. I still use a powered speaker from the Roland's line out, if I need even more power---which is very rare.

I own a Behringer (say what you want, it has served me well and was dirt cheap) but have also used Yamaha and Carvin powered speakers too. Most of the time I just used the speaker as a stage monitor, but have used it as a stand alone "bass amp" on quiet acoustic type gigs.

In my experience, powered speakers project the sound of a bass just fine, but you definitely need an outboard eq or even better, a pre-amp. Otherwise, the sound is a bit sterile sounding.

IncX · #4 07-27-2011, 09:45 AM

this is what my ken smith bsr5ms sounds like on a really crappy powered 250 watt PA speaker:

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(the vocalist was also coming out of its 2nd input)

personally, other than risk destroying it in high volumes, i am pleased with the sound

with the right tweaks you also "take out" the hi-fi thing

basswalker2004 · #5 07-27-2011, 09:47 AM

thanks... i appreciate the input... i believe companies like Bag End make powered speakers for bass.. Someone also mentioned Bergantino but I am not sure.
Maybe a cab designed for bass but powered would be a good way to go.

Muttleybass · #6 07-27-2011, 09:52 AM

I remember back in the day there was a local guy that had half a PA stack for his amp. Of course, in order to make it sound awesome, he had a Bryston 4B power amp, a bass pre-amp, a parametric EQ, a 31 band EQ...

In my experience, I've found that using a PA speaker for bass, as in on stage, tends to sound very bright and stringy. Really mid-honky. It's really hard to dial back the top end 'clack' without losing the high mid growl. The bottom lacks the thump I like. It's a bit like using guitar speakers, or plugging directly into the PA board without a processor.

Bass cabs are tuned to sound a certain way. PA cabs are meant to supply a full range.

That said, if you find a powered PA cab that works for you, that's awesome.

DukeLeJeune · #7 07-27-2011, 10:02 AM

In my opinion the general format of a good PA cab (fairly large horn crossed over low enough to pattern-match with the woofer, and carefully enough to sound good) offers advantages for bass, or just about anything else for that matter. But in general PA cabs are used with subs in serious sound reinforcement applications, so they don't need to have a real deep bottom end all by themselves. Therefore, PA cabs are usually optimized more for efficiency, and tend to cut off higher than is normally desirable for bass guitar. This is a generalization, and I presume there are exceptions.

billfitzmaurice · #8 07-27-2011, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeLeJeune

But in general PA cabs are used with subs in serious sound reinforcement applications, so they don't need to have a real deep bottom end all by themselves. Therefore, PA cabs are usually optimized more for efficiency, and tend to cut off higher than is normally desirable for bass guitar. This is a generalization, and I presume there are exceptions.

+1. Powered PA tops especially are voiced for use with subs handling below 100 Hz, even those loaded with fifteens.

bucephylus · #9 07-27-2011, 10:13 AM

Depends a lot on the PA context of the gigs you have. I have played gigs with the big powered QSC gear. It is simply awesome. If the band has it, you can pretty much get away with one of those little GK micro combos for monitor or no amp at all.

Here's the thing: the really good powered systems, like QSC get pretty pricey. In gigs with less PA capability, there are less expensive alternatives. Duke's cabs and the Bergantino cabs driven by your choice of micro are good solutions.

I must admit to currently being in a somewhat PA challenged gig with great vox, and have been giving serious thought to pulling the trigger on a QSC system to get the band's mix correct. If that happens, I won't need the better cabs I've got so much. In any case, my 2c is no to the use of the powered PA gear just for bass due to cost, but yes to using it in a more broad context for better band sound and mix; and BTW it will satisfy your bass needs.

basswalker2004 · #10 07-27-2011, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucephylus

Depends a lot on the PA context of the gigs you have. I have played gigs with the big powered QSC gear. It is simply awesome. If the band has it, you can pretty much get away with one of those little GK micro combos for monitor or no amp at all.

Here's the thing: the really good powered systems, like QSC get pretty pricey. In gigs with less PA capability, there are less expensive alternatives. Duke's cabs and the Bergantino cabs driven by your choice of micro are good solutions.

I must admit to currently being in a somewhat PA challenged gig with great vox, and have been giving serious thought to pulling the trigger on a QSC system to get the band's mix correct. If that happens, I won't need the better cabs I've got so much. In any case, my 2c is no to the use of the powered PA gear just for bass due to cost, but yes to using it in a more broad context for better band sound and mix; and BTW it will satisfy your bass needs.

Thanks.. lots of great responses.

fokof · #11 07-27-2011, 12:44 PM

I use powered monitors as "bass amp" ( monitor for bass) for the last 10 years or so with satisfaction.

I have a "modular" kit ;
Smallish gigs I go IEM or a powered 10" (RCF ART310a)
Bigger/Outside gigs I add a sub wich have an integrated Xover.(RCF ART902as)

It's always easier to remove highs from that type of box than to create some from a bass cab wich doesn't have any.

Price wise , this full kit cost me around 2K$

testing1two · #12 07-27-2011, 01:06 PM

Some big name players have been doing this for years to varying degrees. Anthony Jackson for instance uses a pair of Meyer CQ 1's and Sting's go-to touring rig is a Clair Brothers system of two 1x18's and two 12"+horn boxes. However, this is top notch PA gear that costs exponentially more than the average bass rig.

I've used a QSC K12 as an amp for rehearsals and it sounds just fine, especially since it has onboard DSP with a "Deep" setting which really accentuates the low end.

basswalker2004 · #13 07-27-2011, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by testing1two

Some big name players have been doing this for years to varying degrees. Anthony Jackson for instance uses a pair of Meyer CQ 1's and Sting's go-to touring rig is a Clair Brothers system of two 1x18's and two 12"+horn boxes. However, this is top notch PA gear that costs exponentially more than the average bass rig.

I've used a QSC K12 as an amp for rehearsals and it sounds just fine, especially since it has onboard DSP with a "Deep" setting which really accentuates the low end.

Thanks, that's right... I forgot about AJ's rig.. It sounds pretty awesome. haven't heard Sting's bu,t I bet it is killer as well. I guess the only way for me to know if it's for me, is to take the bass down to the store and try some out.

basswalker2004 · #14 07-27-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fokof

I use powered monitors as "bass amp" ( monitor for bass) for the last 10 years or so with satisfaction.

I have a "modular" kit ;
Smallish gigs I go IEM or a powered 10" (RCF ART310a)
Bigger/Outside gigs I add a sub wich have an integrated Xover.(RCF ART902as)

It's always easier to remove highs from that type of box than to create some from a bass cab wich doesn't have any.

Price wise , this full kit cost me around 2K$

Thanks...

fokof · #15 07-27-2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by testing1two

Some big name players have been doing this for years to varying degrees. Anthony Jackson for instance uses a pair of Meyer CQ 1's and Sting's go-to touring rig is a Clair Brothers system of two 1x18's and two 12"+horn boxes. However, this is top notch PA gear that costs exponentially more than the average bass rig.

I've used a QSC K12 as an amp for rehearsals and it sounds just fine, especially since it has onboard DSP with a "Deep" setting which really accentuates the low end.

Stefan Lessard from Dave Mattews band also played on a Meyer kit.
(if my memory serve me well)

Exploiter8 · #16 07-27-2011, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basswalker2004

thanks... i appreciate the input... i believe companies like Bag End make powered speakers for bass.. Someone also mentioned Bergantino but I am not sure.
Maybe a cab designed for bass but powered would be a good way to go.

What might it be called? Maybe a Combo?

Just kidding, I've had the same thought as your original post as well.

X8

testing1two · #17 07-27-2011, 01:41 PM

The Bergantino IP series has been discontinued unfortunately. I absolutely love mine.

basswalker2004 · #18 07-27-2011, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exploiter8

What might it be called? Maybe a Combo?

Just kidding, I've had the same thought as your original post as well.

X8

LOL :-)

basswalker2004 · #19 07-27-2011, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by testing1two

The Bergantino IP series has been discontinued unfortunately. I absolutely love mine.

That is too bad.. i really like the Bergantino stuff. A powered Berg would be cool... What do you use for a pre-amp? Or do u run the bass straight in?

testing1two · #20 07-27-2011, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basswalker2004

That is too bad.. i really like the Bergantino stuff. A powered Berg would be cool... What do you use for a pre-amp? Or do u run the bass straight in?

I've tried several preamps over the past couple of years and my two favorites are the Millennia TD1 (super clean) and the Aguilar Tone Hammer (punchy and portable). So I gig with the Aguilar and keep the TD1 in my studio.