Preamp, tube DI or speaker sim for IEM setup

[1954bassman]

Originally Posted by RichardCranium

My live rig for the past couple of years has been a custom pedalboard straight to the board and using an IEM system for monitoring It's been working good so far but I want a little more "hair" to my tone and without going to a traditional amp setup. I took my IEM transmitter out of the rack and have it at my feet so I can adjust my levels without having to cross the stage in the middle of a song and I'm looking for something that can be rackmounted and preferably something with tubes or tube-sounding. I'm after that elusive warm and punchy tone and I'm thinking these are my options:

Separate preamp. More flexibility for tone and I can put the effects in the loop.

Nice tube DI/mic pre. A decent one not the lower end ART or Presonus ones. Not as flexible with the tone but nice signal path. Heard good things about the older Ampeg and Aguilar tube DI's.

Speaker simulator. Seen a few guys using these but they tend to be voiced for a 4X12 guitar cabinet and I'm not sure if that's the tone I want and they're hard to come by to check one out. Hate to order one and have it not be what I'm looking for.

Anyone have any similar experiences? I had the Sansamp BDDI for years and got rid of it because of the mid-scoop issue for the MXR and wasn't happy with that either. Budget is an issue too just can't justify dropping the $$$ on a REDDI or something similar for a cover band that plays clubs.

If you are looking for rackount my favorite was the Sansamp RBI.

If you are just wanting a little grit in your tone, I use a MarkBass Compressore with a JDI. You better like the sound of your bass if you go this route.

[CElton]

I used my Streamliner 900 as a Preamp/DI for an IEM gig over the weekend. It sounded great. Soundman was very happy and so was I.

[fivestringgecko]

I've done that with my Shuttle 6 as well, and same results... worked out GREAT. I've also been in "preamp shootout mode" for quite a while now as well. So far:

Sansamp BDDI (traded for the PBDDI)
Sansamp PBDDI (current)
VT Bass/DI combo
Aguilar Tone Hammer (current)
Tronographic Rusty Box (gone in less than a week)
Darkglass B7K (current)

Aside from the Rusty which I just didn't like (sound was too aggressive, didn't need the boost and it was a little too noisy for my taste), I've had good luck with all the options I've tried. The B7K is new though, so I haven't had a chance to really put it through its paces yet. Initial thoughts are that it's my fav so far though.

I really want to try out a 3Leaf Enabler... I've been running into more ampless gigs lately, and the IEM situation has been hit or miss. Having my own channel in a headphone out right there on my pedalboard would be sweeeeeeet. Then I wouldn't have to use the Shuttle for gigs like that.

5sg.

[RichardCranium]

Quick update I got a VT Bass last week and it's gonna fit the bill for now. Great tones much different than the BDDI has. Of course I just saw yesterday that they're coming out with a new VT Bass DI! Doh!

[SteveC]

I'm still looking for a DI for use mostly at church but could find it's way to a cover trio this summer for some outdoor gigs. I just got some Westone UM2 dual driver IEM's and I really need a good DI to go with them to help my Roscoe's sound their best.

I've never had good luck with SansAmp products. They seem noisy to me. I don't think I want a tube amp sound as much as a tube warmth sound.

Really debating a REDDI but it's fairly expensive. Always liked the Avalon, but I don't think I need/want any EQ as my Roscoe's have 3 band Bart's. I'm guessing the Demeter Tube DI is pretty nice.

[Eublet]

I've been going IEM's for a few years now almost exclusively. I've used a lot of different gear in that time, but I've had the best luck with either a Tone Hammer or VT Bass Deluxe in the chain somewhere. Sometimes I'll use the integrated DI, and other times I'll go from the pedal to a JDI, U5 or REDDI depending on where I'm at and what they have available. Without the Tone Hammer or VT Bass though, even a good DI like the U5 or REDDI sounds pretty boring to me as I want a vintage tone and some character on my bass. It needs to sound like a mic'ed cab to me or I'm just not inspired.

SteveC - I've never had an issue with noise at all out of any Sansamp products, but then again I don't run them at extremely high gain settings. I run them just a hair or two below being saturated even when I dig in pretty hard. The VT sounds best if I want more of that Ampeg thing with a bit more bite and grunt. The Tone Hammer is better if I want a more neutral tone with some coloration that I can control, though it can get close to sounding like a Sansamp also in a pinch.

That new VT Bass DI that showcased at NAMM looks great to me. They finally added the Blend that most folks have been asking for years now, along with a new Bite switch. The Bite switch engaged keeps the VT Bass sounding like it always has, edgy and aggressive. That was a bit much for some at times, myself included, when you wanted to make it smoother. Disengaging that Bite is supposed to smooth it out and widen the voicing a little bit without having to disengage the speaker sim. I can't wait to hear it in person.

Oh, and I started my IEM journey with the UM2's also. Those are GREAT universal phones. I liked them so much that I had some ES2's molded for me a few years ago which have the same innards in them. My ears have slowly changed (they never stop growing, right?) such that I'm ready to have them remolded. I have no inkling of even trying anything else. The UM/ES2's are great for bass players. Not too deep or bright, and they sound FANTASTIC with the VT and Tone Hammer in particular.

I can't recommend that setup enough. It'll get you where it sounds like you want to be.

[SteveC]

Thanks for that post. Good info and more to think about. Glad to hear the UM2's are a good choice. I'll bevy tying them (hopefully) on Sunday.

[Rocksolid]

Ironically, I have used a presonus studio channel, and an ART tube pre in an iem rig with good results. The presonus probably was a bit better.

I have also used an ART studio mp, with a radial tone bone, vt bass, and boss geb-7 and really like this set up. The radial is used to send the di signal to the desk, the out from the radial goes to the geb-7, and the ART pre to my iem, and also a powered monitor if I want to run one on stage also. The vt is before the tone bone. So if you are looking for a rack mount pre, I would suggest a tech 21 RPM. What a great pre.

Something else to consider, is running a compressor and eq in front of your IEM. This makes a big difference to what you hear.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Rocksolid

Ironically, I have used a presonus studio channel...

Something else to consider, is running a compressor and eq in front of your IEM. This makes a big difference to what you hear.

I have debated the Presonus Studio Channel. I have also debated EQ and Compression. I actually had a set up like that years ago. I was hoping to keep it as simple as possible (2-3 units on a small board) but maybe I can't.

I had an Avalon U5 in a rack with an eq. Worked great.

[CElton]

Originally Posted by SteveC

I have debated the Presonus Studio Channel. I have also debated EQ and Compression. I actually had a set up like that years ago. I was hoping to keep it as simple as possible (2-3 units on a small board) but maybe I can't.

I had an Avalon U5 in a rack with an eq. Worked great.

I have a PedalTrain Nano that I use for IEM gigs. Turbo Tuner, Demeter Comp, Tone Hammer. Small and sounds great.

[Son of Bovril]

Just a heads up that I doubt you would hear any difference swapping the countryman for a JDI

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by CElton

I have a PedalTrain Nano that I use for IEM gigs. Turbo Tuner, Demeter Comp, Tone Hammer. Small and sounds great.

I just about pulled the trigger on a Nano yesterday. I just use a TU-2, Rolls IEM amp and a yet to be determined DI - thinking Radial JDI.

[CElton]

Originally Posted by SteveC

I just about pulled the trigger on a Nano yesterday. I just use a TU-2, Rolls IEM amp and a yet to be determined DI - thinking Radial JDI.

Nano is perfect for me. I can squeeze a wireless receiver OR a chorus on there if I feel the need.

I use the ToneHammer with both my active and passive basses. It's a great DI, of course, so is the Radial.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by SteveC

I just about pulled the trigger on a Nano yesterday. I just use a TU-2, Rolls IEM amp and a yet to be determined DI - thinking Radial JDI.

The Tone Hammer when disengaged is a completely flat and pristine DI just like the JDI. It sounds great, and since it's active it won't drag the tone on a passive bass like the JDI will. Then you have the Engaged mode without AGS which gives you the Aguilar EQ controls with a sweepable mid. It's almost flat with the controls at noon. There's a slight sweetening of the top end since it rolls off the ultra highs above 10k by about -4dB, and there's a slight roll off of the sub lows by a couple dB, plus a very mild low-mid boost around +1dB. Basically, it still sounds like your bass with but with a slight warmth added, similar to the Countryman (which also rolls off a little highs and sub lows). Then you can engage the AGS also on the Tone Hammer to get a speaker sim which attenuates the highs above 5k very sharply as well as the lows starting around 40hz. Then you still have the Active EQ controls to dial in your tone any way you want it, plus you can use the Level control as "drive" to keep things clean or push it into full on saturation. AGS = your vintage rig when you need it!!!

Basically, the Tone Hammer is a JDI, a Countryman with Active EQ, and a vintage cab simulator all in one compact unit. It runs on phantom power, or at 18v using two batteries or an 18v PS, so it does not run out of headroom ever no matter how hot your bass is or how drastic you push the EQ. It'll drive a power amp on it's own also in a pinch, or a powered monitor like a JBL or Mackie.

Not trying to twist your arm, but I used to have a slew of DI's that I kept, including the Countryman, Sadowsky, JDI and J48. I sold all of them after I got the Tone Hammer. It's the one piece of gear (even over the VT pedals) that I will never, ever sell. If you need a good DI and are considering any of the ones I mentioned, then I urge you to consider the Tone Hammer very seriously.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Eublet

The Tone Hammer when disengaged is a completely flat and pristine DI just like the JDI. It sounds great, and since it's active it won't drag the tone on a passive bass like the JDI will. Then you have the Engaged mode without AGS which gives you the Aguilar EQ controls with a sweepable mid. It's almost flat with the controls at noon. There's a slight sweetening of the top end since it rolls off the ultra highs above 10k by about -4dB, and there's a slight roll off of the sub lows by a couple dB, plus a very mild low-mid boost around +1dB. Basically, it still sounds like your bass with but with a slight warmth added, similar to the Countryman (which also rolls off a little highs and sub lows). Then you can engage the AGS also on the Tone Hammer to get a speaker sim which attenuates the highs above 5k very sharply as well as the lows starting around 40hz. Then you still have the Active EQ controls to dial in your tone any way you want it, plus you can use the Level control as "drive" to keep things clean or push it into full on saturation. AGS = your vintage rig when you need it!!!

Basically, the Tone Hammer is a JDI, a Countryman with Active EQ, and a vintage cab simulator all in one compact unit. It runs on phantom power, or at 18v using two batteries or an 18v PS, so it does not run out of headroom ever no matter how hot your bass is or how drastic you push the EQ. It'll drive a power amp on it's own also in a pinch, or a powered monitor like a JBL or Mackie.

Not trying to twist your arm, but I used to have a slew of DI's that I kept, including the Countryman, Sadowsky, JDI and J48. I sold all of them after I got the Tone Hammer. It's the one piece of gear (even over the VT pedals) that I will never, ever sell. If you need a good DI and are considering any of the ones I mentioned, then I urge you to consider the Tone Hammer very seriously.

I will. I have looked at it before. I don't really care for the Aguilar preamp in my bass (always been a Bart guy) but I always liked the Aguilar "model" on things like Line 6 Pods, and stuff.

I struggle with just using a good, knob less, clean DI - like the Radial - and having some EQ ability - like an Avalon, SansAmp or Aguilar.

I'll keep reading...

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by SteveC

I will. I have looked at it before. I don't really care for the Aguilar preamp in my bass (always been a Bart guy) but I always liked the Aguilar "model" on things like Line 6 Pods, and stuff.

I struggle with just using a good, knob less, clean DI - like the Radial - and having some EQ ability - like an Avalon, SansAmp or Aguilar.

I'll keep reading...

That's why I like the Tone Hammer cause it can be clean and pristine when you want it to just by turning the preamp off. But if you can't resist turning knobs frequently then perhaps it could be too much of a good thing.

Good luck!

[Sid Fang]

If you don't like the Aguilar, you might check out the EBS MicroBass II. It's what I use for direct-to-house/recording, and while it's not exactly the awesome pre-amp/EQ of the full-blown EBS amps, it's quite good. The odd serial/parallel dual channel setup takes some getting used to, though.

[SteveC]

I decide to keep it simple. Ordered a JDI and PedalTrain Nano from Sweetwater. I'll put my Tuner/mute pedal, Rolls unit and DI on the Nano. Simple, small and easy. That and my Westone UM2 IEM's and my Roscoe's and I should be all set.

[CElton]

Originally Posted by Eublet

The Tone Hammer when disengaged is a completely flat and pristine DI just like the JDI. It sounds great, and since it's active it won't drag the tone on a passive bass like the JDI will. Then you have the Engaged mode without AGS which gives you the Aguilar EQ controls with a sweepable mid. It's almost flat with the controls at noon. There's a slight sweetening of the top end since it rolls off the ultra highs above 10k by about -4dB, and there's a slight roll off of the sub lows by a couple dB, plus a very mild low-mid boost around +1dB. Basically, it still sounds like your bass with but with a slight warmth added, similar to the Countryman (which also rolls off a little highs and sub lows). Then you can engage the AGS also on the Tone Hammer to get a speaker sim which attenuates the highs above 5k very sharply as well as the lows starting around 40hz. Then you still have the Active EQ controls to dial in your tone any way you want it, plus you can use the Level control as "drive" to keep things clean or push it into full on saturation. AGS = your vintage rig when you need it!!!

Basically, the Tone Hammer is a JDI, a Countryman with Active EQ, and a vintage cab simulator all in one compact unit. It runs on phantom power, or at 18v using two batteries or an 18v PS, so it does not run out of headroom ever no matter how hot your bass is or how drastic you push the EQ. It'll drive a power amp on it's own also in a pinch, or a powered monitor like a JBL or Mackie.

Not trying to twist your arm, but I used to have a slew of DI's that I kept, including the Countryman, Sadowsky, JDI and J48. I sold all of them after I got the Tone Hammer. It's the one piece of gear (even over the VT pedals) that I will never, ever sell. If you need a good DI and are considering any of the ones I mentioned, then I urge you to consider the Tone Hammer very seriously.

+1...good variety of tones, plus an active DI for those long cable runs if necessary.

[SteveC]

Well, I have my little IEM board set up. Roscoe Century 5 string basses to a Boss TU-2 and Radial JDI out to the FOH. Monitor/Aux Return from the FOH back to my Rolls box. All on a PedalTrain Nano. Westone UM-2's finish the rig.

Gets a real - world test on Sunday. We've been getting a lot of nice comments lately. Some is inspired playing, and I believe some is the fact that with everyone using IEM's and virtually no stage sound to muddy up the FOH mix it just sounds really good.

Thanks for the other suggestions and ideas. I decided to keep it as simple as possible - no additional EQ, as little need for power as possible and as compact as possible.