Preparing for battle: 15w tube guitar amp???

[Shlogo]

So my friend, who is the main person I play with, is getting a 15w Tube Amp head (I think Vox) and a 4x10 cab.
And I now have the money for a larger rig.
I was originally thinking of a 200w head and 2x12 cab (GK stuff, MB200), but now I'm thinking of waiting a month and getting a 500w head with a 2x12 cab (MB500).
And this friends tend to like to play really loud with bass very low.................

Any thoughts????

Thanks in advance!!

[scottfeldstein]

I have a thought.

You're screwed.

Seriously. He can blow you away no matter which option you go with. Easily. The end.

Maybe you shouldn't even try to build a rig that he can't match. But if I were you, I'd at least get the 500 and TWO of the Neo 212 cabs.

Also, quit your band.

Kidding.

[GlennW]

Last summer I tried the GK MB200 with an 8 ohm K'Lite 3015. I was not impressed with the volume, at all. Well, I was impressed, but not in a good way. I sent it back and got a MB500, and am delighted with it.

[HolmeBass]

Go with 500 W and the 212. With a 410 he will still be able to bury you, but at least you'll keep up with a reasonably loud drummer.

[scottfeldstein]

Originally Posted by GlennW

Last summer I tried the GK MB200 with an 8 ohm K'Lite 3015. I was not impressed with the volume, at all.

That's a really good point. If you get the MB200 at least go with a 4 ohm load, two 8 ohm cabs or one big 4 ohm one. That 212 is 8 ohms, so you'll be getting about half the power the amp can give.

[DONZI97]

Man, even the AC 15 with the 12 combo is loud....been playing against one for two years, my final solution was fEARful 15/6 and Carvin BX1500

[Downunderwonder]

I sometimes play classic rock with a guy with a Tiny Terror 15W tubes into a 4x10 speaker. He would be better off with a single 12 and then we would mic him, but he and drummer have it under control.

My cheap 2x10 and 250W does the business. Yours may not. I am not turned up very far but vintage Trace watts punch a lot harder than their ratings. It would blow the 2x10 no problem if I was silly about it.

10x guitar watts is a nice margin for clean headroom on the bass, hardly ever happens so enjoy it while you can.

I still need earplugs, so will you.

[ToadWarrior]

I have an AC30 and I'm pretty sure I could murder most bass players volume wise...

One thing I will say though is that Vox amps tend to blend very well in the mix, and even if they are loud you will still be heard and felt, but I guess this is true of most good/classic amps with a british voicing.

[spacebassed]

In my last band, I ran an Eden WT800, D118xl, and a D210xst or a PA speaker (12" and a horn) on top. My guitar player ran a 65w 4-10" - I never had a problem being heard...or felt.

[Blankandson]

[quote=scottfeldstein;13509306]I have a thought.

You're screwed.

Seriously. He can blow you away no matter which option you go with. Easily. The end.

Worked a band last summer - guitar had 30 amp tube with 2 x 12. Bass had Ampeg w/4 x 10. Not even close. Had to mic the Ampeg but not the guitar. Lucky for us they liked each other.

[RickenBoogie]

Bass volume comes from speakers much moreso than raw wattage. Thinking more wattage with the same spkrs will increase volume is backwards. More speakers with less wattage will be louder. Iow, going from 200 watts to 500 watts through a 2x12 will be less of an increase in volume than going from 200 watts through a 2x12 to 200 watts through a 4x12. See how that works?

[Downunderwonder]

You're right, but for a bunch of wrong reasons.

[christw]

The difference between the 200w head and 500w head through the same 212 cab will not be all that significant. The 500w head may have a perception of a little more headroom but you would be much better off with two matching cabs than a moderately higher powered head.

A band of mine prefers I use my 300 Pro into a 115 for the rather dynamic three piece (going on four). I'm up against a Peavey Classic 30 112 from eons ago and sometimes acoustic guitar through the PA. I'd need hearing protection and another cab if that Peavey ran into a 410.

[Shlogo]

What if I did the 500w head with a 4x10??
Would that stand more of a chance?

[scottfeldstein]

Any rig with fewer speakers than your guitar player has...well, there's little hope of him not being able to bury you when and if he wants to. He'll have a 410. You'll have a 212. Assuming you have enough watts to drive that cab to its mechanical limits, he will still always be able to crush you.

They say bass players should have 10x the watts of a guitar rig to play at the same volume. They should also say you need more speakers. Double at least, I would think.

[christw]

We can't really tell you what will work best for you and your particular scenario. Speaking in wide generalizations, a 410 will have a little more cone area than a 212 will so you might be able to make a little better use of all the head has to offer. I rarely find myself needing more than a 410 (or 215) if I have 200w+ to work with but I also refuse to play with anyone whose playing volume regularly hurts my ears.

Still, the easiest and most significant way to increase your headroom is to add more speaker area.

[scottfeldstein]

Originally Posted by Shlogo

What if I did the 500w head with a 4x10??
Would that stand more of a chance?

Might do. A lot of this depends on how loud he really plays. it's doubtful that he plays his amp at 100% of its capacity 100% of the time. So... the MB500 and a 410 might be great. But he could probably still bury you if he wanted.

I have the MB500. And I have a Neo 212 cab. And I have a 410 cab. And I have used them together, sometimes with loud guitar players.

[Downunderwonder]

There's a lot of hyperbole flying around here. It comes down to whether your guy is a guitard or a player. If he's a player you could do the 200W and 2x10 and be quite comfortable. Still need earplugs.

Modern watts not being what they used to be I would go the 500W and 2x12 for some insurance. If he's a proper guitard he'll go get a bigger amp the next month anyway.

See if you can talk him into a nice single 12 cab and an amp stand.

[bgavin]

IMO, if your guitar player shows up with either a half or full stack, it might be time to find another band.

My guitar player is fully capable of melting faces with a 30w 1x12 Line6.
My daughter plays a 50w JCM-800 and half-stack, and that will sterilize the audience if it is turned loose.

The Bass Amp Rule of thumb is 10x the wattage of your guitar player's rig.
This gets obscene when competing with Triple Rectifiers and such.

When I was playing bass full time, I used a PLX-3002 biamped into two 1x15 and two 1x10.
This is a full blown PIA at load-out time. Worse in bad weather, or stairs.
I do like it clean when it gets loud, and watts+drivers is the ticket.

As noted above, more drivers is mandatory or you will be buried.
I'm not at all bashful about recommending 4x the bass driver count over the guitar rig.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Originally Posted by Shlogo

Any thoughts????

Prepare Yourself mentally for the fact that you're going to lose.

When You realize that it's not a battle, you actually have the minuscule possibility of making it as a player.
Or as a band for that matter if everyone just competes with eachother volumewise.

Regards
Sam