Preparing for battle: 15w tube guitar amp???

[scottfeldstein]

I have a dear, dear friend who has this problem. He's a guitar player who once said to me--right to my face--that he would never, ever listen to anyone who said "turn it down." He thinks this is some kind of rock 'n roll ethos. Well, it is--but for listeners, not musicians. He just doesn't get it. He's an amateur. I love him, but it's true.

[Blankandson]

"he'll go get a bigger amp the next month anyway" Good point! We bass players aren't the only ones with GAS.

[schecter5string]

My guitar player has 2 amps he runs into a ABY box. A orange tiny terror(15 Watts) into a 412 cab, and Vox AC15c.
I run a Hartke HA3500 into a Hydrive 410. I'm never above half way on the volume, and have plenty to spare if I need too.

[spaz21387]

My guitarist runs 4 100-120 watt solid state marshalls and crates into 4 4x12s. I Run a carvin r600 into 4 4 ohm 2x15 cabs. Im still louder than him and he cranks all 4 amps up to 10 i only go half way on the master volume on the carvin. I really think efficient speakers make more of a difference than power.... and for those that dont beleve me heres a pic.
IMAG0265 by spaz21387, on Flickr

Heres the other one and the most of my guitarists setup
IMAG0263 by spaz21387, on Flickr

[BogeyBass]

Just find a used 2x15 or 8x10 and be done with it.

All this squawk about quitting your band is silly.

Never been in a band where a guitar had less than a 4x12
many had full stacks. and more than 1 guitar

hes using a 15watt guitar amp it should break up nice
and be able to cover the drums fine and not be too loud.

Guitards with 100 watt heads and half stacks are the problem
because they turn up too loud to get breakup.
Guitars that use 30 to 50 watt heads for early breakup are the smart ones.
likewise little open back combos are squawk boxes
nothing wrong with a beefy sealed back 4x10 or 4x12
for guitar they sound better than combos

Pro bands use big stuff...its ok

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by schecter5string

My guitar player has 2 amps he runs into a ABY box. A orange tiny terror(15 Watts) into a 412 cab, and Vox AC15c.
I run a Hartke HA3500 into a Hydrive 410. I'm never above half way on the volume, and have plenty to spare if I need too.

He's cooking the amp that's not connected to a cab, or your buddy runs an ABY into two amps?

[schecter5string]

He's running both amps at the same time, they sound really nice together
The AC15c is a combo, the orange runs into a 412

[Bearded Wizard]

Maybe this is just me, but I find it a lot easier to keep up with a guitarist fighting fire with fire (tubes with tubes). And wow, in all my time playing I've never seen bass players freak out about a 15 watt guitar amp. I've been up against everything from a Champ to a 100 watt tube amp with 8x12"s. Never had any problems keeping up with my V4 and 1 or 2 15"s.

[Stumbo]

Two 8ohm 2x12's stacked vertically along with the 500 should move enough air for you.

Or one of the efficient new 2x15 cabs put out by Bared Faced Bass or greenboy might wor for you.

[Warmuth]

Gk 1001rbii's are starting to become dirt cheap these days and one of those through a 410,412, 2x 212's etc.. will get painfully loud. If your guitarist manages to bury that head with a good cab (and a 15 watt amp can't come close) everyone will be deaf.

I started with a PF500 and the difference between that head at 500 watts rated and the GK at 740 is startling. The GK also just has a razorblade voicing quality to it that cuts a mix really well.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

I have a thought.

You're screwed.

Seriously. He can blow you away no matter which option you go with. Easily. The end.

Maybe you shouldn't even try to build a rig that he can't match. But if I were you, I'd at least get the 500 and TWO of the Neo 212 cabs.

Yep.

When I play guitar, I often play a 5E3 style 15-watt tweed amp and I can pin my bass player AND drummer's ears back with plenty of headroom to spare (if I was so inclined, but having been in their shoes many times I am volume conscious).

500 Watts and two 12's, at the least.

[scottfeldstein]

Originally Posted by Bearded Wizard

Maybe this is just me, but I find it a lot easier to keep up with a guitarist fighting fire with fire (tubes with tubes). And wow, in all my time playing I've never seen bass players freak out about a 15 watt guitar amp. I've been up against everything from a Champ to a 100 watt tube amp with 8x12"s. Never had any problems keeping up with my V4 and 1 or 2 15"s.

You kept up because they let you.

[IPYF]

a 15w tube amp is not going to hump you.
The only VOX head I know of that is 15w is the Night Train; unless he's found a head version of an AC15. It's not that loud regardless of how many speakers he plugs into it.

Both of those VOX amps are exceptionally highly voiced amplifiers. Just boost the midrange frequencies that his amp can't use and you'll be fine in the mix. I'd go with the 500w amp option, just because it will give you more options. I don't get bass players who use low wattage amps. You can always turn a powerful amp down but you can't always turn a low rated amp up.

[Bearded Wizard]

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

You kept up because they let you.

You make it sound as if we're always at the mercy of guitarists no matter what amp they're playing! In my experience that's hogwash . I agree with whoever said there's a lot of hyperbole flying around here. I've played with dimed AC15's. And nuking AC30's too. I'm delighted when a guitarist brings an AC15, it's a great stage rig.

[scottfeldstein]

Originally Posted by Bearded Wizard

You make it sound as if we're always at the mercy of guitarists no matter what amp they're playing! In my experience that's hogwash

Maybe not any amp. But dude said he could "keep up with" a 100w half stack using a 15" speaker. And maybe that's exactly what happened. But come on. If it did, it's because that guitar player exercised good sense.

It's not the case that any guitar amp can kill any bass rig. But a lot of guitar amps can kill a lot of bass rigs. I once played my GK MB500 into a 4 Ohm Ampeg 810...and was utterly destroyed by a guitar player who used his 40w Fender Hot Rod Deluxe 12" combo irresponsibly.

Obviously I don't play with that dude anymore. But still.

[two fingers]

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...FcaiPAodkmAAkg

Baseball bat. $35 bucks. He get's too loud, whack him with that and tell him why you did it. Odds are, he won't do it again.

[Nigel Rahmshard]

Solution = 300 watt tube head + 2 8-10 cabinets.

[Stumbo]

Ear plugs, my man. Ear plugs. Huh?

[Bearded Wizard]

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

Maybe not any amp. But dude said he could "keep up with" a 100w half stack using a 15" speaker. And maybe that's exactly what happened. But come on. If it did, it's because that guitar player exercised good sense.

It's not the case that any guitar amp can kill any bass rig. But a lot of guitar amps can kill a lot of bass rigs. I once played my GK MB500 into a 4 Ohm Ampeg 810...and was utterly destroyed by a guitar player who used his 40w Fender Hot Rod Deluxe 12" combo irresponsibly.

Obviously I don't play with that dude anymore. But still.

All anecdotes aside, all we can speak for is ourselves and our own experiences, and to speak for the experiences of others' is pretentiously presumptious. My points are that I think you guys are blowing this out of proportion, and I thought I'd interject an anecdotal nugget that I have an easier time competing with guitarists with my old rigs vs. the new solid state stuff, for whatever that's worth. But really, an AC15 and a 4x10" is not the end of the world. If the guitarist is using a Night Train, that's even better (as far as having lower stage volume is concerned).

If you want a guitarist using a Vox and 4x10" to have a little lower stage volume, I'd look into getting him some JJ EL844's and Weber Derek Trucks DT-10's, I know guys that use the Derek Trucks speakers, they're quite nice if a little quieter, great sound.

[scottfeldstein]

Originally Posted by Bearded Wizard

But really, an AC15 and a 4x10" is not the end of the world.

You're right, it isn't. It wouldn't automatically make me run for the hills. But this isn't a thread that went..."my guitar player just bought a new amp!" and then everyone lost their minds. It's a thread that started like "my guitar player is getting a new amp...he plays too loud and with too much bass in his EQ..and I'm titling the thread PREPARING FOR BATTLE."

So in that context I think a certain amount of mind-losing is justified.