Problems with Eden Traveler WT400

onosson · #1 10-02-2011, 09:36 PM

So ... I picked up a used Eden WT400 a couple weeks ago. I was looking for an 8 ohm 210 cabinet for some smaller gigs, and the seller had both available for a good price so I thought I would pick the amp up with the cab.

I tried it out on a couple gigs and really liked it, didn't have any problems except a microphonic tube which I replaced after the first gig. However, recently I've been having some problems with it. It seems to hit the output limit (light by the master volume goes on) much more frequently and at quieter volumes than when I first gigged it out. And it distorts like crazy when it does so.

The weirdest part is that it gets even worse when I run it through my 4 ohm 410 cab (all cabs are Eden cabs, btw). It seems to LOSE volume and distort sooner through the 4 ohm cab than with the 8 ohm cab. I'm not sure why, but it's really disappointing as I otherwise love this head.

I'm going to have it out on 6-7 gigs this coming week, so I'll see if I can dial it in better. I wanted the lower powered rig as I like keeping the stage volume under control, but I'm barely able to get the master volume to 12:00 (especially if I have the bass turned up ONE notch) before it breaks up, and it's not "nice" distortion.

Anyone have any suggestions or similar experiences??

onosson · #2 10-03-2011, 10:03 PM

SJan3 · #3 10-03-2011, 11:25 PM

Make sure you're not overdriving your pre amp. Set your Pre amp volume AFTER you set your tone. When the clip light starts to flicker, back off on the pre vol until it's out or just barely lighting up. THEN adjust you MASTER volume to your needs.
I had a WT400 for 10 years and it was GREAT! I'm using MARKBASS now but sometimes miss the EDEN very much!

onosson · #4 10-04-2011, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJan3

Make sure you're not overdriving your pre amp. Set your Pre amp volume AFTER you set your tone. When the clip light starts to flicker, back off on the pre vol until it's out or just barely lighting up. THEN adjust you MASTER volume to your needs.
I had a WT400 for 10 years and it was GREAT! I'm using MARKBASS now but sometimes miss the EDEN very much!

Yep, I'm making sure the preamp isn't overdriving. It seems to have less headroom on the master than when I first gigged it out.

Matthijs · #5 10-04-2011, 06:32 AM

And this is after you replaced the tube? seems something is wrong there. Also the nasty distortion doesn't sound as normal overpowering. How high is your gain setting, does the green limiter light blink?

Did you try the forum on the Eden site? It helped me out several times.

onosson · #6 10-04-2011, 07:42 AM

I use the gain anywhere between 11 to 1 o'clock, depending on the bass. I try to set the gain level according to the manual, so that the "set level" light or the compressor are only just coming on when I dig in heavy on the E string.

With the master up around 1 o'clock, and one or two notches of bass gain, the light by the master volume will go on and it gets distortion. The weirdest part is that this (subjectively) happens at lower volume levels with my 410 4ohm cab than the 210 8ohm cab (both Eden cabs).

I'll go check the Eden forum and see what I can dig up.

MuthaFunk · #7 10-04-2011, 08:08 AM

It sounds like how mine reacts. I've found I rarely if ever get the master up to 12:00 without the clip led lighting. For me it's been loud enough. I run a 4 ohm Eden xlt.

onosson · #8 10-04-2011, 08:17 AM

I wouldn't be concerned about it being underpowered (the original owner replaced the WT400 with a WT550 so he'd have more headroom) except that it seems to have less power available before hitting its limit than it did when I started working with it.

onosson · #9 10-04-2011, 08:19 AM

Another thought: maybe I need to work more with the low parametric eq knob instead of the bass knob, which I assume is a low-end shelf, so that I won't be working the amp so hard pushing all the bass frequencies.

Matthijs · #10 10-04-2011, 08:25 AM

I think it's fairly normal having the red light coming on somewhere in between 12 an 2 o clock, I myself never experieced a lot of distortion at that point though. Are you sure the distortion is from the power amp and it's not cone breakup in the cabs or the pre-amp? Also, you said it was better at first, did this change when you exchanged the pre-tube? You might want to try the old tube and see if there's a difference.

Matthijs · #11 10-04-2011, 08:35 AM

Being carefull with the low dial is sensible, it shelves down to 30hz and adds a lot of low end. I often use the lower parametric dial, set at 80 hz, as a bass knob. It might very wel be that you are putting out a lot of really low end that overloads the amp and your cabs can't reproduce anyway.

onosson · #12 10-04-2011, 08:37 AM

The old tube was microphonic and seemed to be developing internal feedback when I stopped playing (low hum that got louder). That problem went away entirely when I replaced it.

I do have a few good 12AX7 tubes that I have used in various guitar amps, and tried swapping a couple for the one that's in there now - it didn't seem to affect anything one way or another.

I'm not entirely sure where the distortion is coming from, though I tried having the gain very low (about 9:00) and cranking up the master, and I could still get it to happen even though the set level light and the compressor never came on.

It is possible that it's the cab - however, as I noted, the distortion happens more easily with my 4 ohm 410 than with my 8 ohm 210 ... I find that counterintuitive. I've used both cabs with my Hartke LH500 (rated at 500 watts) and never found this problem at equal or louder volumes, so it doesn't seem likely that the cabs are the problem - although the low frequency response of the Hartke is quite different than the Eden (the latter seems to have a lot more low end available) so that may be a difference. I've actually tried it with a 3rd cab, a Marshall 410 also 4 ohms, and got the same thing happening.

onosson · #13 10-04-2011, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthijs

Being carefull with the low dial is sensible, it shelves down to 30hz and adds a lot of low end. I often use the lower parametric dial, set at 80 hz, as a bass knob. It might very wel be that you are putting out a lot of really low end that overloads the amp and your cabs can't reproduce anyway.

That sounds right to me. I have the low para set around 120, I'll try moving it a tad lower, and keep the "bass" knob flat.

I really love the sound of this head! I just want to be able to get it at an adequate volume level for my smaller/mid-size gigs.

Or, maybe I need to upgrade to a WT550 like the guy I bought this off of...

JTE · #14 10-04-2011, 08:54 AM

From the manual that came with my WT-400 in '97...

"Bass- This control operates a shelving type filter that will cut or boost low bass signal by about 15dB at 30 Hz. Response from this control is flat at 12:00 o'clock. This control gives a very solid feel to the bass. It is very effective on 5 an d 6 string Basses."

"Low- The Low control will cut or boost frequencies from the Bass to the lower midrange as selected by the control directly above it. Frequencies available with this control are from 30 Hz to 300 Hz. The Low control will cut or boost the selected frequency by +/- 15dB. This control and all of the midrange controls will produce a flat response when they are set at 12:00 o'clock noon."

"Output Limit- These LED's light up whenever the amplifier's output limiting circuit is activated. This feature will keep the amplifier from ever sounding badly distorted when it is being played very hard. It is alright to have the limit light flashing some of the time while playing. The indicator is just letting you know that you are running to the maximum output available."

My WT-400 had a bad gain pot which the factory replaced years ago. It would suddenly get louder and distort (very very annoying at church...). Another common area to check on these is the FX loop. The jacks for the FX send and return are switching jacks, and it's common for dirt and corrosion to build up on the switching contacts in the jacks.

I'd get a can of Caig's De-Oxit contact cleaner (you can find it at many music stores now- Fender and Peavey market it with their names on it, and Hosa, the people who sell all kinds of small cable connectors also sell it). Spray a bit on a 1/4" plug and insert it and remove it a few times. Do this on EVERY jack on the amp. I'd also open the amp up, take the tube out and spray some cleaner in the socket and put the tube in and out a few times to clean the tube socket. Spray some into the interior of each pot on the amp too- use the nozzle to get it INTO the pot, then while spraying twist the knob back and forth quickly.

Do those things, make sure your speaker jacks and cables are all good, then check the amp over. The settings seem a bit high to me- I run my WT-400 with the pre-amp gain at about 10:00 O'clock (active Laklands and passive Fender Precisions), the Enhance off (and I generally also pull out the Enhance to kill the compressor unless I'm slapping), the EQ controls all pretty flat, maybe just a slight boost on the low or mid semi-parametric gain. The output seldom goes above noon or 1:00 o'clock just because I've never needed it that high using either an Eden D401XLT 4Ω, an Eden D212XLT 4Ω, a pair of Euphonic Audio VL-208s, or my current Avatar SB-112/B-210 rig.

Given that you replaced the tube and it seems that the problems came up after that, I'd also suspect the tube. My understanding of the WT pre-amp circuit is that the tube really doesn't do that much to the sound. Because tubes are still rather fragile items and there are wide inconsistencies in their manufacture, I'd try a couple of different 12AX7s in there too.

Good luck, I think it's the best amp I've ever heard since I started gigging in '76.

John

(Inconsistent capitalization in the original).

onosson · #15 10-04-2011, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE

From the manual that came with my WT-400 in '97...

Thank you John - I will try all of your advice!

IntrepidCellist · #16 10-04-2011, 09:17 AM

Also, be careful with the Enhance knob. That will "suck" volume like no one's business since it's a huge mid scoop/lows and highs booster.

onosson · #17 10-04-2011, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntrepidCellist

Also, be careful with the Enhance knob. That will "suck" volume like no one's business since it's a huge mid scoop/lows and highs booster.

Yeah, that is definitely one to watch. That's why I like the Eden eq section, you can dial in your own contour as you like it. I use the Enhance to balance between my Fender and MusicMan basses - pretty much off for the Fenders, and up to 8 or 9 o'clock for the MM (and I haven't really had the aforementioned problems with the MM, just the Fenders).

onosson · #18 10-04-2011, 12:18 PM

OK, I picked up some of the DeOxit and sprayed it in all the jacks, the pots, and the tube socket. Put everything back together and tried it out again. It doesn't seem as bad now - I'll see how it functions at my gig tonight!

onosson · #19 10-06-2011, 11:17 AM

OK had the Eden out on a couple of gigs over the past two days, and the problem seems to have been resolved! Two more gigs tonight, and two on the weekend - hopefully the problem doesn't return...