Pro's and Con's to aluminum cone speakers.

TUEP · #1 03-17-2011, 10:40 PM

I have been doing a lot of shopping around for a new speaker cab, and I know a lot of guys either really like Aluminum Cone speakers, or they don't like them. I have to admit I love the deep growly SVT type tone. I usually run a Behringer BDI-21 (SVT settings) into an Ampeg SS SVT-350. Its a good poor man's SVT sound. Thing is my speaker cab is old and seen waaaaay better days. LOL

So I mainly play stuff like Alice In Chains, STP, Pearl Jam, Pantera and Anthrax. Would the aluminum cone speakers be to bright? What is the scoop on these?

Also who makes the better ones? I know Hartke has made them for years, but I have seen that GK makes them now too.

If not the aluminum speaker cabs, what kind of cab would be good for thick gritty tone, for my Amp Head and style of music? Sealed? Ported?

Any advice is appreciated.

SactoBass · #2 03-17-2011, 10:54 PM

IMO, those aluminum cone speakers just look like Reynold's Wrap. Kinda cheap lookin, and dumb lookin too, but again, that's just my own personal opinion.

If you like the tone of an SVT, but don't want to lug around an Ampeg 8x10 fridge cab, look into a Bergantino NV610. It will be the last cab you'll ever need, and will actually sound better than the Ampeg cab.

Munjibunga · #3 03-17-2011, 11:04 PM

If they blow up, the little shards of aluminium will shred your legs. (Notice how I spelled aluminum British style.)

LegoBass · #4 03-17-2011, 11:34 PM

I have the Hartke Hydrives and I love the way they sound. They are quite punchy and really give the high end a little bit more "OMPH!" The Hydrives are only half aluminum, but you really can tell if I am using them or not. For your type of music I would not go with the full AL cones (like the GK's and Hartke XL's.) Try out the Hydrives though, very nice sound, exspically for the money.

TUEP · #5 03-18-2011, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LegoBass

I have the Hartke Hydrives and I love the way they sound. They are quite punchy and really give the high end a little bit more "OMPH!" The Hydrives are only half aluminum, but you really can tell if I am using them or not. For your type of music I would not go with the full AL cones (like the GK's and Hartke XL's.) Try out the Hydrives though, very nice sound, exspically for the money.

Cool. See my worry is they would sound to clean and pitchy, and lack rawness and grit.

I need to find a shop around here that has some.

MikeCollatos · #6 03-18-2011, 12:49 AM

I had a full hartke rig consisting of a 210XL, a 4.5XL and 215XL cab and loved them when playing the full rig together. I since sold the 210 and 4.5 cabs but still use the 215xl for my larger gigs and while the 210 and 4.5 didn't really give me the low end I was looking for the 215 cab has more then enough lows and the aluminum 15"s also give me that high end growl that I love. It really boils down to what you like and not what other think. Me personally i like the 215 aluminum cab but the 4.5 and 210 left me wanting more when it came to low end. Mid and high were there but not the lows, but that's my opinion.

Basshappi · #7 03-18-2011, 12:53 AM

Go play them.

**bassybill** · #8 03-18-2011, 01:06 AM

I don't think the differences between an aluminium driver and a paper coned one are likely to be any more noticeable or predictable than the differences between two different paper drivers. The main thing you want from a driver cone is rigidity under normal operating conditions - I suppose there could be small differences in that respect. But it's just there to move air, after all, and it's the moving air you hear, not the material that the cone is made of.

Some people think that drivers with ali cones are inherently brighter but I don't know of any physical reason why that might be the case. If any of you guys with sound knowledge about this could shed some light I'd be very interested. Or maybe it's just people listening with their eyes again.

In any event, the sound of a cab depends on so many different variables, including drivers, design, construction, crossover if there is one and so on, that it seems unlikely that ali and paper drivers will be easy to distinguish by tone in a predictable way.

fhm555 · #9 03-18-2011, 01:20 AM

I've played an SWR Basic 350 through a 410XL for a long time now and never had an issue with any of the speakers and only had a few times over those years where I wished for something louder, but I've never thought it didn't sound good. Low volume or all the way up, it takes some twiddling of knobs and most definitely works best with an active bass, but it can sound like anything from a piano to a ton of bricks. It was, and still is the most versatile rig I've ever owned and I would put it up there as one of the all around best stand alone bar sized rigs going. I've never tried any other amp through the hartke so my experience is limited, but it's also been very satisfying.

TUEP · #10 03-18-2011, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basshappi

Go play them.

At this time of night, and with my schedule I really don't have the chance. I am GASing and wanted to hear some feed back from folks.

Arjank · #11 03-18-2011, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Some people think that drivers with ali cones are inherently brighter but I don't know of any physical reason why that might be the case

Yes there is.
Because alu (and all other "stiffer then paper" cone"s) has less internal damping then a soft paper cone it will have an extreme breakup node in the upper register. For a 10" driver it's mostly in the 2.5 to 4Khz range. This will make the driver sound more bright. On the contrary a stiffer cone behaves better(mostly) in the range below that breakup node, this will make the sound less muddy.
But you must not see this as a rule, there are allways exceptions because it's not only the cone material that determines the sound of the driver.

Nev375 · #12 03-18-2011, 02:43 AM

No, they will not be too bright for metal/grunge. An aluminum woofer still sounds like a woofer, it does not sound like a tweeter.

Hartke is the best. No contest. By the way, Larry Hartke himself posts his own cell phone number in ads and frequently posts here on TB as well. You should call him and ask this question. No one knows more about this subject than him.

My Hartke 410xl cab is old and seen better days as well. The carpet has worn thin in spots, the metal grill is kinda rusty, the handles have part of the rubber grip broken off on one side. The speakers....well the speakers sound as good as they always did.

Basshappi · #13 03-18-2011, 03:06 AM

I use a Hartke 4x10 cab in my practice rig (Ampeg B2 head). It seems to be a good sounding cab and reproduces my bass tone very well clean, gritty, with FX or without, it handles it all very well. I will be playing it at a gig tomorrow night for the first time and will be able to get it up to volume in a big room.

As for my previous post, I was not intending to be a smart***. It's just that until you plug in your own bass and amp and give it a serious test drive you aren't going to know if it works for you or not.

Cheers!

EpiRipper · #14 03-18-2011, 03:06 AM

I have 2 Hartke 410XL's and I love them. I traded up from a Peavey 1810 cab ( 1 x 18" and 2 x 10"). The difference is amazing. I've gone from muddy with very poor note definition, to a much clearer sound so that I can actually hear what I'm playing.

Note: I said clearer, not cleaner. I use an amp sim with an SVT sound to get that bit of snarl and growl. One local sound guy always tells me the bass sounds fat. I don't know why... I watch its diet and never feed it after midnight.

Arlekiin · #15 03-18-2011, 03:25 AM

I bought a Hartke 2x15xl for my friend and got to play it...and no its definetly not lacking in the low end actually if anything it has more of it.

Bassmec · #16 03-18-2011, 05:03 AM

Ally loudspeaker cones are fine if they are not required to produce frequencies around the HF beaming area.
If the cone works within its self the radial cone striations harden and become brittle then the cone cracks.
I think regular periodical anealing of the aluminum cones is a handy get around.
All you need to do to counteract this effect right here:
YouTube - Annealing Aluminium

Adef187 · #17 03-18-2011, 05:27 AM

I used to have a 410XL, and I loved it. At the time the band I was in played mostly metal, and I really felt that it helped my bass come through in the mix and add a lot of dimension.

I also occasionally used distortion, and the aluminum cones really shined in that respect. Probably the tightest distorted bass tone I've ever heard. My guitarist was pretty jealous of my rig for that reason, and frequently kept trying to get me to trade him my cab for his. Lol

froghat · #18 03-18-2011, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassmec

Ally loudspeaker cones are fine if they are not required to produce frequencies around the HF beaming area.
If the cone works within its self the radial cone striations harden and become brittle then the cone cracks.
I think regular periodical anealing of the aluminum cones is a handy get around.
All you need to do to counteract this effect right here:
YouTube - Annealing Aluminium

Yeah, I take a blowtorch to my speakers every fortnight.

Arjank · #19 03-18-2011, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Ally loudspeaker cones are fine if they are not required to produce frequencies around the HF beaming area.

Why so?
Then paper cones should not used to produce frequencies around the hf beaming area too.

Btw. an alu cone will not crack during normal use. But, it happened to a Thiel & Partner hifi driver ones, they are made of ceramic material which is much harder then alu. These cones are so brittle that you should not even touch them with your hands. http://www.accuton.de/service/index.php?&m1=3&m2=3&m3=7

IngerAlb · #20 03-18-2011, 05:53 AM

My experience is limited to the Hartke cabs only; but to me those sounded like a tin can, no low end whatsoever. I believe those were designed to work in pair with a second cab, that would provide the required low frequencies, while the aluminum cones would handle the higher frequencies (which they do actually fairly ok). So on their own, the 410 didn't impress me a bit, I prefer their paper cones cabs by far (the sound is well balanced and clear - although a bit on the thin side too). The HyDrives are a different story though (in a good sense)