PS410 vs SWR GIII

[carvinbassplyr]

I have recently acquired an Epifani PS410 and still have an SWR GIII cab. For any interested, I was considering recording some sample tracks using these two cabs for people who are considering either of these cabs since most people don't get a chance to hear Epifani stuff b4 they buy it. Since an SWR GIII cab is fairly common, I figured it would be a good reference point to compare the Epifani's tone signature for those who have never heard one.

[J Dub]

What do you find the differences to be between the two?

[carvinbassplyr]

Right off the bat I noticed that the SWR sounds more "nasily". I don't know if this is due to the use of the foster horn or the way they tuned their speakers. The PS cab has more "booty" to it with it's frequency response going down to 36Hz vs the SWR only going down to 40Hz. I play my bass tuned A D G C F (like Gouche does) and with the SWR there's an audible drop in volume when playing the open low A where with the PS cab it's solid and full. The PS tweeter is very sweet and musical, which Epifani is known for, vs the sometimes clanky foster horn. I don't know if I'd say the PS has more mids than the GIII since GIII cabs are pretty "middy" when not used with SWR amps, but the PS's mids are maybe voiced more musically/definitively. The punch just jumps right off the cab, where as GIII's, IME, tend to thin out once ur about 10 or more feet away. A REAL plus over the GIII cab is that with the 800 watt rms handling of the PS cab, vs the 700 watt rms of the GIII, I have a single 4 Ohm cab that can handle/use the full power of my amp bridged @ 4 ohms instead of having to lug/daisy chain 2 8 Ohm GIII cabs together to get full power.

[J Dub]

Thanks for the info! I've been interested in these cabs, but didn't know anyone that could give me an opinion on it. This is perfect because I currently use two GIII Jrs. Do you find that they have less of a hi fi sound than the GIII/UL series (provided heard/used them)?

[carvinbassplyr]

I don't know how to answer the hi-fi question...when I think of hi-fi I think of something with a high level of sound quality, but most people when you say hi-fi it just means that it's bright. One of my favorite bass players, Andrew Gouche, sold me on the PS410 cabinets. The finger and slap tone he gets is so warm yet so clean and punchy. If you'd like to hear a great comparison between a Goliath cab and PS410 cab, watch his "You Brought The Sunshine" and then his "Shout Music" video on YouTube. He uses the same bass and amp for both videos but in the first video he has a Goliath cab and the second video he's using his normal PS410 rig. To me it's a landslide for which rig sounds better, but you can make up ur own mind...

[Jim Carr]

Thank you for this. I am a fan of SWR GII cabs, the old ones with the rear port, but am now an Epifani cab user. I think SWR is good and would not hesitate to use a rig with a GII or GIII cab, but I find my older Epifani UL S1 410 and 210, and also NYC t-210 are all I want right now. However, as much as I like the low end, I am kinda thinkin' fEarful. Have you tried other Epifani 410's?

Originally Posted by carvinbassplyr

...One of my favorite bass players, Andrew Gouche, sold me on the PS410 cabinets. The finger and slaptone he gets is so warm yet so clean and punch. If you'd like to hear a great comparison between a Goliath cab and PS410 cab, watch his "You Brought The Sunshine" and then his "Shout Music" video on YouTube. He uses the same bass and amp for both videos but in the first video he has a Goliath cab and the second video he's using his normal PS410 rig...

[carvinbassplyr]

I have never personally played but have heard the UL2 and UL DIST cabs. The UL2's seem quicker under the fingers but seem to have an upper mid "edge" to them that kinda washes out the bottom IMO with the exception of the UL2610 which has the same projected frequency response as the PS410 and definitely has some booty. The UL DIST cabs seem to be a more refined UL2 cab with a fuller sound and more clarity. I've heard/seen Andrew Gouche using some UL DIST 410's recently, but I still dug his sound more through the PS410's personally.

[carvinbassplyr]

Here are the links to the videos I'm referring to if anyone wanted to listen and compare. Remember he's using the same bass and amp for each clip

SWR Goliath cab: Andrew Gouche in Concert- You Brought The Sunshine! - YouTube

Epifani PS410 cab: Andrew Gouche Shout Music - YouTube

[J Dub]

Gouche is a beast!

[carvinbassplyr]

Originally Posted by J Dub

Gouche is a beast!

So are those PS410 cabs behind him IMO! They don't call him the godfather of gospel bass for nothing!

[J Dub]

I will have to say that I think (based soley on the two videos) that the SWR cab has much more clarity than the Epifani PS cabs.

[bplayer1]

The guy is a great player! I can't possibly see how anyone would be expected to make a judgement between the two cabs based on the two entirely different videos. The mixes are completely different along with the application. I really wanted to hear the Epfani and couldn't really hear it at all. I think the only way to make a sound judgement would be a controlled recording and atmosphere using quality studio monitors.

[carvinbassplyr]

Originally Posted by J Dub

I will have to say that I think (based soley on the two videos) that the SWR cab has much more clarity than the Epifani PS cabs.

IMO, based on the videos, the SWR sounds "clanky"/brittle. Yes, there is more high end clarity, but it lacks depth for my taste. The Epifani cab has much more depth and growl to it and the tweeter is a lot more delicate.

[carvinbassplyr]

Originally Posted by bplayer1

The guy is a great player! I can't possibly see how anyone would be expected to make a judgement between the two cabs based on the two entirely different videos. The mixes are completely different along with the application. I really wanted to hear the Epfani and couldn't really hear it at all. I think the only way to make a sound judgement would be a controlled recording and atmosphere using quality studio monitors.

I plan on recording two sound clips using the same bass, amp and EQ to better compare these cabs to one another in a controlled environment. Should be posting it this afternoon.

[Jim Carr]

Originally Posted by bplayer1

The guy is a great player! I can't possibly see how anyone would be expected to make a judgement between the two cabs based on the two entirely different videos. The mixes are completely different along with the application. I really wanted to hear the Epfani and couldn't really hear it at all...

+1
Too many variables in the vids to compare these cabs, IMHO.

The test I use is to bring my amp & cab to the place where I can try a cab I am considering. Using my bass, I A/B the cab.

BTW, AG's slap tone is cool, and seems a lot like what one gets out of an SWR with the Foster horn, a good bright pre, fresh strings, and an active bass. A bit of compression helps to mitigate the clank/gank, if desired.

[carvinbassplyr]

Originally Posted by Jim Carr

+1
Too many variables in the vids to compare these cabs, IMHO.

The test I use is to bring my amp & cab to the place where I can try a cab I am considering. Using my bass, I A/B the cab.

BTW, AG's slap tone is cool, and seems a lot like what one gets out of an SWR with the Foster horn, a good bright pre, fresh strings, and an active bass. A bit of compression helps to mitigate the clank/gank, if desired.

When it comes to the horn in these two cabs...a compression tweeter is a compression tweeter. I do believe that the crossover network in the Epi cab yields a sweeter sound out of the 2 though. The Epi cab has much more true bass than a GIII cab which is more if a low mid sound, so the Epi cab just has an overall more rounded tone IMO.

[Jim Carr]

In my limited experience, the horn/crossover network in my old SWR GII was able to deliver a skull-splitting slap clank, when driven by a nice bright Jazz, a CA6 and my Bmax pre. I'd suppose you are right that the logical tautology "a compression tweeter is a compression tweeter" might not be the only relevant factor.

[carvinbassplyr]

Originally Posted by Jim Carr

In my limited experience, the horn/crossover network in my old SWR GII was able to deliver a skull-splitting slap clank, when driven by a nice bright Jazz, a CA6 and my Bmax pre. I'd suppose you are right that the logical tautology "a compression tweeter is a compression tweeter" might not be the only relevant factor.

I don't know about GII cabs (as I've never played through one, know most people prefer them the most out of the Goliath 410 cabs and hear nothing but good things about them), but the drivers in GIII and later cabs seem to have an upper mid edge tuned/built into them (which is a common opinion/description used when describing the Epifani UL cabs as well) that, IMO, exaggerates the "clank" from the tweeter to add what some people consider "clarity". The drivers in the PS410 have a much warmer, deeper sound (which may be due to the engineering of the cab, the speaker design/tuning or a combo of the two) which makes the transition from horn to speaker less clanky/brittle IMO. Epifani is known for their "airy" sounding tweeters so I'm obviously not the only one who gets that impression.

[carvinbassplyr]

Ok, here's the clips. Both were recorded with the same bass, same amp and same EQ/Gain settings on the amp using an audio-technica AT4050/CM5 mic.

GIII cab: GIII by carvinbassplyr on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
PS410 cab: PS410 by carvinbassplyr on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

The only note I want to make is the scale I'm playing in the beginning is an A two octave scale. I know most people never play that low, but I play tuned A D G C F, so it really shows off how low the Epi goes (and how low the SWR doesn't).

[jjk2007]

Sounds good CBP. I have my Cirrus tuned to A and enjoy that tuning. The PS does sound like it has some booty going on there!