PSA on speaker / instrument cables

slap5string · #1 08-13-2011, 07:40 AM

I had a major revelation this week at band practice. I was very disappointed with my sound and couldn't figure out why my gain was half of what it usually is. My GK 700rb and sansamp RPM are usually more than enough to hang with the two guitarists in my band but on this day I was pushing my rig way harder than I've ever had to before. After reading many threads on TB and tearing my rig apart piece by piece I've realized this one very important detail that should never be overlooked! NEVER USE A SPEAKER CABLE IN PLACE OF AN INSTRUMENT CABLE IN YOUR RACK! Many of you veterans probably already know this, but I learned the hard way. I use 3 patch cables in my rig - 2 for effects/send to my compressor and 1 from the Sansamp to the input on my GK head. This is where the speaker cable was in the chain. The amount of gain I lost was astonishing!

Don't blame the head or the components - check your cables!

staindbass · #2 08-13-2011, 07:42 AM

wow i never thought of that. was there more noise and hiss too ?

Floyd Eye · #3 08-13-2011, 07:44 AM

I pretty much already knew this, but a week or so ago in a thread I started about power amps the importance of it was driven home to me.

billfitzmaurice · #4 08-13-2011, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slap5string

I use 3 patch cables in my rig - 2 for effects/send to my compressor and 1 from the Sansamp to the input on my GK head. This is where the speaker cable was in the chain. The amount of gain I lost was astonishing!

It shouldn't have cost any gain. Speaker cables have less resistance and capacitance than instrument/patch cables, so there would be no signal loss. The lack of shielding will cause major noise problems when run with passives, but only minimal added noise with actives or when used as interconnects. That leads me to believe the cord was defective.

jmlee · #5 08-13-2011, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

It shouldn't have cost any gain. Speaker cables have less resistance and capacitance than instrument/patch cables, so there would be no signal loss. The lack of shielding will cause major noise problems when run with passives, but only minimal added noise with actives or when used as interconnects. That leads me to believe the cord was defective.

Bill's right. Speaker cables, especially the big specially-made ones, offer much lower resistance than do ordinary patch cords. By a speaker cable, do you mean one that had two parallel conductors like lamp cable? Or do you mean the one of the super-fat coaxial cables?

1958Bassman · #6 08-13-2011, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slap5string

I had a major revelation this week at band practice. I was very disappointed with my sound and couldn't figure out why my gain was half of what it usually is. My GK 700rb and sansamp RPM are usually more than enough to hang with the two guitarists in my band but on this day I was pushing my rig way harder than I've ever had to before. After reading many threads on TB and tearing my rig apart piece by piece I've realized this one very important detail that should never be overlooked! NEVER USE A SPEAKER CABLE IN PLACE OF AN INSTRUMENT CABLE IN YOUR RACK! Many of you veterans probably already know this, but I learned the hard way. I use 3 patch cables in my rig - 2 for effects/send to my compressor and 1 from the Sansamp to the input on my GK head. This is where the speaker cable was in the chain. The amount of gain I lost was astonishing!

Don't blame the head or the components - check your cables!

As posted, level shouldn't have suffered just due to it being speaker wire but if it has been twisted, turned and generally abused over the years, as many cables have, I would almost bet that it has broken strands that are shorting from the tip to the sleeve connections, causing a short. That will definitely cause the audio level to drop and if it was used between the amp and speaker cab,....well, that could just get ugly.

You can verify this with a multi-meter set to Ohms and/or opening the plug if the cover unscrews.

slap5string · #7 08-13-2011, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

It shouldn't have cost any gain. Speaker cables have less resistance and capacitance than instrument/patch cables, so there would be no signal loss. The lack of shielding will cause major noise problems when run with passives, but only minimal added noise with actives or when used as interconnects. That leads me to believe the cord was defective.

That is a possibility also. The speaker cable I used was very heavy - like 10 ga. and it was used to link my Sansamp RPM preamp with my head. It may have not been so noticable if it was used in my effects loop. I asked a guy at Sam Ash and he advised me to replace all of my patch cables and not to use speaker cables in the chain as they will drain power from the amp.
Bill - you would know better than me on this subject, I'm just thankful a $15 cable was able to restore my power!

slap5string · #8 08-13-2011, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staindbass

wow i never thought of that. was there more noise and hiss too ?

Yes! There was alot of noise - but I attributed this to the fact that I had to boost my input and master volume to extreme levels in order restore the lost gain.

slap5string · #9 08-13-2011, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1958Bassman

As posted, level shouldn't have suffered just due to it being speaker wire but if it has been twisted, turned and generally abused over the years, as many cables have, I would almost bet that it has broken strands that are shorting from the tip to the sleeve connections, causing a short. That will definitely cause the audio level to drop and if it was used between the amp and speaker cab,....well, that could just get ugly.

You can verify this with a multi-meter set to Ohms and/or opening the plug if the cover unscrews.

I have a meter like this but never used it for this application - what type of reading am I looking for?

nashvillebill · #10 08-13-2011, 08:34 AM

The reading from tip to sleeve should be infinite (well close to it, or several Mohms).

A partial short will show up as readings in the range of several Kohms, or lower.

I found this issue on an instrument cable a couple of years ago, my volume would mysteriously drop. Turned out that there was indeed an issue with few strands of wire inside the solder connection at the plug shorting out.

Tip to tip, or sleeve to sleeve, should be 0 (continuity) or very close to it, the meter may read 0.5 ohms for example, but again, tip to sleeve should be very very high.

slap5string · #11 08-13-2011, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashvillebill

The reading from tip to sleeve should be infinite (well close to it, or several Mohms).

A partial short will show up as readings in the range of several Kohms, or lower.

I found this issue on an instrument cable a couple of years ago, my volume would mysteriously drop. Turned out that there was indeed an issue with few strands of wire inside the solder connection at the plug shorting out.

Tip to tip, or sleeve to sleeve, should be 0 (continuity) or very close to it, the meter may read 0.5 ohms for example, but again, tip to sleeve should be very very high.

Thanks! I will try that out on all my cables.