Punchier replacement for SVT-410HLF

[Fangry]

Hi everybody,

I'm getting a bit tired with my Ampeg SVT-410HLF cab. It's a nice and loud cab, sure, but I've never been able to get the sound that I like out of it.

I play a G&L Trib L-2500 fiver through a BBE 383 pre to a QSC PLX1602 power amp with EQ definitely emphasising the mids and cutting the low bass. I play prog rock/metal with a loud drummer and two 412's. It is unlikely that we'll play out without PA support but I need the volume for rehearsals.

The HLF goes low, seems to like my five-string and the volume is sufficient but somehow the definition and punch just isn't there - and from I understand these are hardly things the HLF is known for. It got better when I replaced my old Ampeg SVPCL pre with the BBE, and even more when I lifted the cab off the floor of our rehearsal place to on top of a fellow band's bassist's identical cab.

I'm looking something a bit lighter and something with a little less grind, if you will, as well. I've been looking at the GK Neo cabs, which seem a nice, light, low cost alternative and I really like the idea of having two 112 cabs that you can stack vertically on stage. Of course I'm on budget so boutique stuff is off limits unfortunately.

Thanks for any suggestions!

[Gearhead17]

The 410hlf does not have a lot of midrange in the 300-800hz range. It's something that annoyed me a lot when I had two of them. It has a lot of low end though, which can be great for some folks, but in a live situation, it's not too helpful. IMO.

Two 112 GK cabs are probably not going to do it volume wise for rehearsals. GK 410 NEOs are actually pretty good and could work out well. Do not be afraid to look for something used, but be careful about downsizing your rig too much. If you go too small, you will have to cut all low end below 150hz heavily and just boost the midrange to hear yourself. The smaller the cab, the less low end you can get out of it - typically. There are exceptions though....

I think it is also a bit redundant to have a BBE pre-amp and an EQ emphasizing the midrange when the BBE unit (even at modest settings) is hurting your midrange reponse. Do you still have the SVP-CL?

[edgaroviz]

I tried one today, drove 2 hours just to try it out. I was disappointed, not mids at all, backed away from the 7pro as well because of the cab.

Though I did like the mark bass 104HR, amazing cab, great volume, and the tone... Amazing. You can get a clean tone, and you can make it growl if you'd like to.

My plans is getting two 104HR, and get a mesa boogie m9, or a orange terror bass 1000.

[Mastermold]

My Genz Benz Uber 410 (4 ohm) is nice and punchy. Sounds great with an SVT-CL too btw.

[JGR]

If you want punch and mids, Berg NV412/610 is where it's at. I don't think it gets any better.

[RickenBoogie]

The GB Uber line fits the bill. A pair of 212's would kill.

[will33]

Most anything will have more midpunch than a 410hlf, they're just not made that way. They're supposed to come in under the guitars and kinda float the band....an approach that works with thinner guitar tones. Nowdays a lot of people are downtuning and adding bass at their guitar rigs and in something like that, the hlf will get lost down there.

[miholc]

Originally Posted by JGR

If you want punch and mids, Berg NV412/610 is where it's at. I don't think it gets any better.

This. But as OP stated budget is an issue...

[Fangry]

Heh, I should have known that the answer to my question was "ANYTHING is punchier than the HLF"

Originally Posted by miholc

This. But as OP stated budget is an issue...

Yeah, Berg and GB stuff are out of my working man's budget unfortunately, definitely so with how they're priced here in Europe.

Originally Posted by Gearhead17

I think it is also a bit redundant to have a BBE pre-amp and an EQ emphasizing the midrange when the BBE unit (even at modest settings) is hurting your midrange reponse. Do you still have the SVP-CL?

Oh, I don't have a separate EQ, I was trying to refer to how I EQ the BBE pre. I sold the SVPCL, that's another piece of equipement that I never got anything but mud out of. I've heard so many good things about it though, dunno if it just couldn't drive my QSC or my previous Crown amp.

I'll have to check out the GK NEO410, the local distributor actually have them in stock at a pretty good price. 112 and 212s are out of stock, hopefully they'll get some soon. I'm probably just in love with the idea of having something else than a plain old 410 cab for a change, maybe something modular with 12s. Of course, these ideas have little to do with practice

And yeah, of course I'm keeping an eye on the used market as well.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

[blackba]

Is your SVT-410HLF the MDF made version or the plywood made version?

Can you just boost the frequencies you are finding missing? This is what I do with my MDF SVT-410HLF and Ampeg SVT3-pro rig. Currently mixing it with an Ampeg BXT-210M cab /Crown K1 poweramp. The 210 cab is much clearer and has lots of punch.

[Fangry]

Originally Posted by blackba

Is your SVT-410HLF the MDF made version or the plywood made version?

It's an early Nam made cab, whatever they're made of.

Originally Posted by blackba

Can you just boost the frequencies you are finding missing? This is what I do with my MDF SVT-410HLF and Ampeg SVT3-pro rig. Currently mixing it with an Ampeg BXT-210M cab /Crown K1 poweramp. The 210 cab is much clearer and has lots of punch.

I am boosting the mids, everything still gets covered in this low end rumble. Also I've come to the conclusion that I don't really like the tone of the cab at all for my band's purposes - too much grind, not enough snap.

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by Fangry

Hi everybody,

I'm getting a bit tired with my Ampeg SVT-410HLF cab. It's a nice and loud cab, sure, but I've never been able to get the sound that I like out of it.

I play a G&L Trib L-2500 fiver through a BBE 383 pre to a QSC PLX1602 power amp with EQ definitely emphasising the mids and cutting the low bass. I play prog rock/metal with a loud drummer and two 412's. It is unlikely that we'll play out without PA support but I need the volume for rehearsals.

The HLF goes low, seems to like my five-string and the volume is sufficient but somehow the definition and punch just isn't there - and from I understand these are hardly things the HLF is known for. It got better when I replaced my old Ampeg SVPCL pre with the BBE, and even more when I lifted the cab off the floor of our rehearsal place to on top of a fellow band's bassist's identical cab.

I'm looking something a bit lighter and something with a little less grind, if you will, as well. I've been looking at the GK Neo cabs, which seem a nice, light, low cost alternative and I really like the idea of having two 112 cabs that you can stack vertically on stage. Of course I'm on budget so boutique stuff is off limits unfortunately.

Thanks for any suggestions!

I would look for an old trace elliot 8 X 10 for bright forward mid and neat and tidy bass.
Just while you are seek your goal sure a nice Bergantino AE212 one lump but light, this is now your grail, how will you get it? what will you be prepared to sacrifice?,
who would want to sell one? sadly they are discontinued!.
What about a pair? the QSC is begging for them.

[Fangry]

Originally Posted by Bassmec

I would look for an old trace elliot 8 X 10 for bright forward mid and neat and tidy bass.

Who wouldn't like a 810? But who wants to lug one around - you're from the UK, you know the cars we drive in Europe aren't exactly logistics heaven..

Originally Posted by Bassmec

Just while you are seek your goal sure a nice Bergantino AE212 one lump but light, this is now your grail, how will you get it? what will you be prepared to sacrifice?,
who would want to sell one? sadly they are discontinued!.
What about a pair? the QSC is begging for them.

A German dealer seems to have those in stock, at the modest price of 1.1 k€. I'm getting pretty nice tax returns this year - but not that nice.

[Fair Warning]

After a brief experiment with the HLF, I went to an SVT410HE. Even though I am playing in the sub-E spectrum alot with the music I play, I get a great grind all the way down to Ab with a standard HE. They are alot smaller than the HLF, fit in the back seat and have castor wheels. Volume stands out much better than the HLF ever did. Also, stack 2 for an instant 810, for those times that you need it

[MrHaezelnut]

If you're looking to sell your HLF, I'm a potential buyer!

[Sartori]

Maybe try a couple Ampeg 410HE cabs. They're basically half of an 810E, but they also have a tweeter which I'm pretty sure is adjustable. You could also try two 15E cabs, which may be somewhat lighter and smaller. They won't take as much power, though.

[Dustin Teel]

I think the people that have advised you to go with 12s are correct.

12s have pretty much the same punchiness as 10s, but can really shine in the low-mid/mid range (at least in my experience). They don't sound floppy like a 15, you still get that tight response, and the tone is, in my opinion, superior to 10s or 15s.

If I were you, I would look for a used Peavey TVX 412. You can still find them floating around on Ebay, CL, or in pawn shops for around $300 or $400.

I was strictly an 810 guy for a while. Until I got a 412 cab. I haven't even considered going back to 10s or 15s since.

[Sartori]

I play a 2x15, and it most certainly does not sound "floppy."

The sound characteristics you describe are not determined by driver size.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Fair Warning

After a brief experiment with the HLF, I went to an SVT410HE. Even though I am playing in the sub-E spectrum alot with the music I play, I get a great grind all the way down to Ab with a standard HE. They are alot smaller than the HLF, fit in the back seat and have castor wheels. Volume stands out much better than the HLF ever did. Also, stack 2 for an instant 810, for those times that you need it

Agreed. 410HLF is a great cab but it isn't everyone's cup of tea. Personally, it goes too low for my tastes. I'm a sealed 810 fan, and the 410HE is basically half of an 810e with a defeatable tweeter, as Fair W says.

[woundround]

punchy mids
GK 12 s if 2 112 s are nt loud enough for ya get 2 212 s they ll punch ya in the head, the gk neo 410 s lack in mids IMO, and if you like a big load Ampeg 810
Cheers