Quality Amp??

[Dude7777]

New to this forum and never played a instrument in my life. My church needs a bass player and they talked me into learning. I bought a 2007 Fender American Deluxe Bass online and now need an amp. My local Craigslist has a SWR Black Beauty Combo amp 350W or 450W with an extension speaker for $600. Is this a good buy and what kind of quality is it? I really dont have a clue what to get. My local Guitar Ctr likes MarkBass.
I would REALLY APPRECIATE any help you can share with me.

[craig.p]

First thing to get straight is how many people you'll be playing to, whether the bass is going to run through the PA as well as your amp, and what kind of music it is (name artists specifically).

If all you'll be doing is quiet hymns to fifty people, and there's PA support, almost any crummy thing will do.

If you're doing Fireflight covers to five hundred, and there's no PA support, you'll need an SVT and a pair of 8x10 cabs.

Let us know, and we'll work off that.

[fenderhutz]

Originally Posted by Dude7777

My local Guitar Ctr likes MarkBass.

That's because they are the only people that sell it.

Look at some Peavey TKO combos used as well. They are relatively inexpensive, sound ok, and get loud.

But it WOULD help to know how big of a church you attend.

[Dude7777]

The Church is about 250 people, stage, drums, keyboard, 3 vocals, 2 guitars, 2 misc. There is a sound room but I don't know what its about. All have there own speakers etc on stage.
It's an Assembly of God chruch, very rockin music and not quiet. I think i may want something light weight and mobile. I'm 50 years old and just don't want to carry from my home practice to church every week. Perhaps a head amp and then speakers? Thanks for the continued help.

[sgtpepper]

Well, first of all: Welcome to TalkBass. And to the Bottom End too

IMO, it depends on how serious you wanna go. I'm guessing that if you got an American Deluxe Jazz, you're planning on going a little bit serious on this one.

The Black Beauty in a very good amp. Quality sound, loud and not too heavy. And if you are getting an extension cab, all for $600 is a good deal. The only thing is that you are going to have some problems carrying both. Are we good so far?

It would be very helpful if you give more specific information about the band and the Church. (i.e. ceiling height, construction materials (marble, wood, etc.) and the power of you bandmates' equipment)

Keep us posted.

[Dude7777]

The floors are carpet and 30 feet ceilings. The SWR Black Beauty does not come with an extension speaker at the $600 price. I would like to keep the price around the $600 mark but I dont want to be underpowered and buy junk either. So, how much do I need to spend to be happy with the purchase?
I was thinking a Littlle Mark III and maybe a 2 -10" speaker cabinet? Someone mentioned the Genz Benz shuffle 6.0 or 9.0? Thakns for all your help.

[sgtpepper]

Well, in that case... May I suggest the Hartke 5210C combo or maybe the 5410C combo too. Incredible performance on those two. Both come with the LH500 (500 watts) head. And maybe you can get a cab extension the the future. The 5210C is about $650 and the 5410C is about $750

Here are some links for you to check them out:

http://www.samash.com/p/Hartke_HyDri...210C_-49954135
http://www.samash.com/p/Hartke_HyDri...410C_-49954138

[Dude7777]

What about these?

Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0
Markbass LIttle Mark III

Then I could just get a speaker cabinet and expand if needed?

[sgtpepper]

Very good head amps both of them. Lightweight and Powerful.

In my opinion they are overpriced, but a lot of bassist say that you pay for the lightweight and of course good quality.
But if your options are those two I'd go with the Genz-Benz.

Your budget will increase because then you'll have to buy a cabinet for at least $400.

Have you considered the Ampeg SVT 210 Micro VR? The say it's a really really good amp. Lightweight, nice looking and classic Ampeg sound.

[SactoBass]

Dude7777,

Welcome to Talkbass!

The shuttle 3 and 6 heads have attenuated (reduced) low end because the shuttle cabs that they are designed to go with don't handle low end very well. The shuttle 9 and the new streamliner amps do not have that attenuation.

The Little Mark III head is EXCELLENT!!

I am 54 years old, and prefer to not have to schlep ultra heavy gear. I recently bought a Markbass stack that I absolutely love. It is the Jeff Berlin combo and the matching NY151 extension cab. The head that comes in the combo is called the Combo Amp II but it is EXACTLY identical to the Little Mark III separate head (don't let the II and III designation confuse you). The Little Mark II (separate head) is the older version.

This stack ROCKS! It pumps 500 watts into a pair of 15" speakers. And what is nice is, the combo amp weighs a mere 47 pounds and the ext cab is 37. For smaller venues, I can just use the combo amp at 300 watts into a single 15. For larger gigs, add the ext cab. Very versatile! Here's a pic:

[Dude7777]

From what I can find it is 200 watts and may not be powerful enough. A friend just called me and said he found:
Ampeg SVT-3 Pro head with one SVT-410HLF cabinet and a SVT-15E cabinet for $1000. Local pick up. Is this good? I could probably use the 15 for practice at home and leave the 410 at the church for Sunday play. Just bring the head with me. What do you think?

[James_E]

Seems Iike a reasonable deal if everythin is in good shape. Nice and modular too.

[Dude7777]

Thanks for the info on the Markbass SactoBass!

So the Genz Benz 3 and 6 is out. Perhaps the Shuttle 9?

I really like your set up. It's probably just perfect for what I have in mind. Does it have a headphone jack? the price tag is up there, but I don't want to have to upgrade later. What do you think about the deal my friend found, listed above?

Genz Benz Shuttle 9 or Markbass F1 or F500?

[mdogs]

Originally Posted by Dude7777

From what I can find it is 200 watts and may not be powerful enough. A friend just called me and said he found:
Ampeg SVT-3 Pro head with one SVT-410HLF cabinet and a SVT-15E cabinet for $1000. Local pick up. Is this good? I could probably use the 15 for practice at home and leave the 410 at the church for Sunday play. Just bring the head with me. What do you think?

This would definitely work and work really well. Although, I see no reason why the SWR setup would not work really well either. In a room the size you are talking about, you are probably getting PA support, but even if you are not the SWR should be fine.

[ErnieD]

Good weekend to hit GC with your Am Dlx bass and try some of this gear first hand. With Pres Day sale, you may come outta there with some new, light gear at a fair price. Maybe take a friend that knows music gear well to help you.

You can get alot for your money buying used gear. But it'll prolly be heavy stuff, large gear someone's moving out. But if you don't have to move it often, could work for your budget. Good luck, Welcome to TB and pls let us know what you end up with. I own a used LMII and F1 plus some big iron; the light gear gets used most times with either a 410 or 212 cab.

FYI, if your not in a big hurry for your gear, check out the AMPS classifieds here on TB. Best used prices, on well cared for gear from fellow bassists that offer good deals. I shop here often.....WAY TOO OFTEN! Peace, ernie.

[Dude7777]

Really thinking about the Genz Benz Shuttle 9. I found one new for $650 delivered from authorized dealer. The transferable 3 year warranty, customer service and headphone jack are important. The power of 500/900 watts means I probably will not need to upgrade for a long time. I also want to use my ipod to help with practice. Am I missing something with the Markbass F500 or Littlemark III? Speaker selection will be my next research.

Tank you all for such a warm reception and all the help you're giving me.

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by SactoBass

The shuttle 3 and 6 heads have attenuated (reduced) low end because the shuttle cabs that they are designed to go with don't handle low end very well. The shuttle 9 and the new streamliner amps do not have that attenuation.

I would like to correct some mis-information that seems to rear it's head from time to time here.

First of all, over the last 10 years or so as the power levels of amps have increased (a lot), most of the higher quality amps have incorporated high pass filtering to reduce the potential for damage to all cabinets as well ast to improve the clarity of the midrange by eliminating the sub-sonic modulation of the mid frequencies (the reproduction of mid frequencies by a cone moving large amounts at very low frequencies) which results in NON-MUSICAL sum and difference frequencies being added to the acoustic signal. This wasn't much of a problem with smaller amps but it certainly is with bigger ones.

Secondly, with the entire industry shifting to supporting a class of cabinet called compact and sub-compact cabinets, an additional issue comes into play, that of driver unloading where the box, air mass and driver no longer operate as a "linear spring" at very low frequencies. This increases the potential for damage to the drivers as well as wasting valuable power that could be better used reproducing frequencies that the smaller cabinets can handle.

The HPF's are in the 28-35Hz range depending on the models and are low enough that when played on larger cabinets will not be an issue. When played on smaller cabinets (by any manufacturer) the cabinet will be the limiting factor in low end reproduction, not the amp.

There are also differences in perceived low end due to the available power (higher powered amps when driven hard will feel more solid on the low end in general) and comparing a 900 watt amp to a 300 watt amp will, of course, certainly feel different.

We were one of the first companies to understand (and incorporate) the need for proper high pass filtering and we developed some unique filter applications (4th order asymmetrical types) that are particularly suited to bass amp applications. Now, almost all quality manufacturers use some form of high pass filtering though I do not know of anybody using the particular types of filters we designed.

Another note, to clarify another misperception, the low frequency "boost" function of the Shuttles is actually a low frequency extend, meaning that when the switch is pressed in, the HPF's corner frequency shifts down increasing the low frequency bandwidth. It is not a "boost" per se, and it's the same basic circuit that's in the GBE's that's marked LF Extend just that we got a lot of question as to what extend ment and players suggested that we just call it a "boost". Can't win on this one

If you are playing the Shuttles on a larger cabinet and want the full extension of the low end, push the LF "boost" (EXTEND) switch in. If you are playing with any manufacturer's compact or sub-compact cabinet at lower volumes the LF Extend can be in but if playing the small cabinets really hard, it's advisable to keep it out to help prevent possible damage to the cabinet. Compact cabinets (all cabinets actually) power handling capabilities decrease as frequency goes down, usually quite significantly.

Hope this helps.

[Dude7777]

Thanks AgedHorse! What is the difference in sound with the STL-210T cabinet and the XB3 series GB 210T-XB3 when used with the Shuttle 9? In your opinion which provides a better overall package?

[Fred Mott]

I play in a very on fire church, and use a SWR 350 Pro with 210s. A church about the size of yours maybe little bigger. # guitar players, 2 electric 1 acoustic, keyboard, drums and 6 singers. I have plenty of power, more then I need. I would say the black beauty would be plenty. If they have a decent P.A. They could run you tru there if needed.

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by Dude7777

Thanks AgedHorse! What is the difference in sound with the STL-210T cabinet and the XB3 series GB 210T-XB3 when used with the Shuttle 9? In your opinion which provides a better overall package?

The XB cabinet is larger and tuned to a lower frequency, therefore the XB will have better practical low end.

Which is better? That really depends on what exactly is most important to the player. If you need high output and the most extended low end then I would say the XB, but if size and weight is more important, or you do not ned the high er output and lower extension then the Shuttle 210 would be a better choice.

Other things to consider with the compact cabinets is the ability to scale... using one for small gigs and practices and add another for larger gigs.

On a cautionary note, with larger amps and any of the compact cabinets (by any manufacrturer), if you need higher SPL you want to be careful that you do not overpower your cabinets. We have seen a few instances where folks have used an amp like the Shuttle 6.0 or 9.0 with a 4 ohm 10" or 12" cabinet not realizing that they are getting 600 or 900 watts into a single driver and have expectations that can not be met. This is why we offer our compact cabinets and single driver cabinets in 8 ohm versions only, as this matches up better with the available power many of these new heads are capable of delivering.