Question about 2x10 + 1x15

mebusdriver · #1 05-09-2011, 09:16 AM

I can't really do a thorough search on my phone. And for the record..... I did try. Haha!

My question is about pairing a 2x10 and 1x15. I thought I read somewhere on here that this was a common cabinet selection but "technically" it is one of the worst pairs you could get.

Can someone clarify for me? I just picked up the PF500 and the 2x10 cab and I'm thinking about getting the matching 1x15 cab. I swear I could have read something about this pair causing phase issues or something....... Idk.... Any help?

will33 · #2 05-09-2011, 09:46 AM

You can get phase problems anytime you have different speakers playing the same frequencies. Some combinations are better than others but it's a non-issue if you use all the same speakers like adding another 210 same as the one you have now. Phasing is when some frequencies will boom out more than others and some will get cancelled. In terms of power distribution, a 210 + 15 is a good bit better than a 410 + 15.

There, my 1st post using a phone...what a PITA...time for a laptop and wifi I guess.

Downunderwonder · #3 05-09-2011, 09:55 AM

I stack a 2x10 vertically on top of a 1x15. For all the potential problems it actually sounds really good out in the room and up close.

I haven't played it at really high volume though. I'm lead to believe phasing becomes more prominent at higher volume but nobody has said why.

If you get another identical 2x10 you will be guaranteed against phase problems and the old "can't hear the 15 complaining under the tens", more of an issue with a powerful 4x10 on top.

**JxBass** · #4 05-09-2011, 10:27 AM

Mixing Cabinets and Phase Response.

esa372 · #5 05-09-2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mebusdriver

My question is about pairing a 2x10 and 1x15. I thought I read somewhere on here that this was a common cabinet selection but "technically" it is one of the worst pairs you could get

That sounds more like the 115+410 pairing.

115+210 is much better, since the cabs are more evenly matched with regard to power and volume.

Mixing speaker sizes may or may not result in phase cancellation - having a rig where all drivers are the same size eliminates this possibility.

I have played 115+210 (or 215+410) for many years, and have never noticed any phasing issues, but that certainly doesn't mean they aren't present.

As BFM said in this thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

IMO pick one driver size and that's it. There's absolutely no benefit to mixing driver sizes - other than when you use real midrange drivers with a crossover - and more than a few downsides.

ack · #6 05-09-2011, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

I stack a 2x10 vertically on top of a 1x15. For all the potential problems it actually sounds really good out in the room and up close.

Not hijack the thread, but can you elaborate on what stacking the 210 vertically gets you? I just got my first 115 & 210 cabs and have been trying to dial in the best sound.
Thanks,

Downunderwonder · #7 05-09-2011, 11:19 AM

It stops the tens from comb filtering their higher frequencies. It also gets one of them higher up where everyone can hear it better.

Comb filtering pics get posted now and then. High school physics class. Two speakers in phase side by side go loud and quiet as you walk across in front. Dead in the middle they reinforce, off to the side they cancel, then a little more to the side they become in phase a whole wavelength of delay from the nearer to to the further of the pair. I suspect as your ears are spaced apart you don't get the effect up close but only further out.

Someone posted about doing a test with a bunch of cabs layed out side to side and said it was very evident. Not wanting to mess with that I haven't bothered to see for myself.

billfitzmaurice · #8 05-09-2011, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

It stops the tens from comb filtering their higher frequencies. .

Comb filtering is only a secondary concern. Midrange dispersion is halved when drivers are side by side rather than vertical.

Downunderwonder · #9 05-09-2011, 11:30 AM

In other words the field of acceptable midrange loudness is halved in width? No wonder I always stand front in centre to the bass rig when I'm in the audience.

billfitzmaurice · #10 05-09-2011, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

In other words the field of acceptable midrange loudness is halved in width?

It is. The higher the frequency and the wider the source the narrower the dispersion. That's the reason twelve loaded guitar cabs beam so severely.

mebusdriver · #11 05-09-2011, 12:20 PM

Awesome.... validation to buy the matcing 15. haha. All I need is another reason to spend more money.....

Downunderwonder · #12 05-09-2011, 12:25 PM

No validation. The only way you'd find out if it won't sound arse is to play it loud at a gig with a wireless.

ack · #13 05-09-2011, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

No validation. The only way you'd find out if it won't sound arse is to play it loud at a gig with a wireless.

I actually just bought a Peavey Mark VIII/115-BW/210TVX so my son's band can use it for outdoor gigs. I've been to every one of their shows and this was the first time I've felt the bass actually moving air and it sounded great. Their bassist loved it and although there was adequate PA support, the rest of the band could really tell the difference on stage from the bass. My youngest son was on the drums and he definitely liked the feel of the bass.

By contrast, there were other bands with medium sized rigs there - there was a Trace 2x15 in the opening band's backline and I didn't get the same feel that I did from our 210/115. They've used 15's and 410's before, but this was the first time they've done a 210/115 - quite a big sound and quite a difference from what we were used to.

oddgrowth · #14 05-09-2011, 01:06 PM

I've done both.

boogie 1x15 + 2x10 for a few years. It was decent...but when I found another 1x15, WOW, so much better.
later, I dropped a few 15" 3015 Kappalites in both 1x15s. holy smokes is it full, engulfing and punchy.

Tho I've gone on to using Marshall stuff now: Superbass MK II + a bass 4x12.

*but +1000 for 2 identical cabs.

My name is Mudd · #15 05-09-2011, 01:47 PM

Using the Markbass 102P Traveler/151P Traveler as my example here to ask...

If a mfgr claims that this pairing works well together, is that mostly marketing or are there times when a mis-matched stack CAN actually work well together, assuming that they were engineered as a 'matched' set?

Spinal Tapper · #16 05-09-2011, 01:53 PM

I use about as "unmatched" set of gear u can imagine...

Markbass R500 amp head (500w @ 4 ohms)
SWR 2x10 Goliath JR III cab (350w @ 8)
Orange 15" cab (500w @ 8)

Sounds great to me! And easier to travel with vs. a 6x10 or 8x10, or even 2x15's.

As long as your not messing with the OHMS or over powering your speakers, you should be able to experiment with different things.

Never_grew_up · #17 05-09-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ack

I actually just bought a Peavey Mark VIII/115-BW/210TVX so my son's band can use it for outdoor gigs. I've been to every one of their shows and this was the first time I've felt the bass actually moving air and it sounded great. Their bassist loved it and although there was adequate PA support, the rest of the band could really tell the difference on stage from the bass. My youngest son was on the drums and he definitely liked the feel of the bass.

By contrast, there were other bands with medium sized rigs there - there was a Trace 2x15 in the opening band's backline and I didn't get the same feel that I did from our 210/115. They've used 15's and 410's before, but this was the first time they've done a 210/115 - quite a big sound and quite a difference from what we were used to.

If you bought me a Mark VIII/115/210 rig I'd like it,too.
But the Mark VIII has an electronic crossover and 2 power amps in it so if you have it set up correctly you're pushing lows to the 115 and mids/highs to the 210 as opposed to sending the same signal to everything and letting the cones fight it out amongst themselves.

Bassmanmike1 · #18 05-09-2011, 02:17 PM

I use a Hartke 115XL and a Hartke 2.5 XL that has 2 10's and a 5" tweeter. I run them with a GK 800RB in bi-amp mode and it sounds great to me. So if I understand this correctly, as long as I run bi-amp everything should be fine. It's only if I run mono that there would be phase problems. I have had it set up both ways and I do like the way it sounds bi-amped better. Just never knew why. LOL. BTW, the GK does not have any numbers on the crossover knob. I set it by ear and it sounds best to me around 10:00 O'Clock. Any one have any thoughts on this?

Bassdirty · #19 05-09-2011, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Never_grew_up

the Mark VIII has an electronic crossover and 2 power amps in it so if you have it set up correctly you're pushing lows to the 115 and mids/highs to the 210 as opposed to sending the same signal to everything and letting the cones fight it out amongst themselves.

I thought that was just a signal to be "sent to a seperate power Amp[s]" (for highs and lows accordingly).

Basically, if he's hooked up to the speaker out jacks, he's full range on both cabs.Unless i'm mistaken (at least thats what the manual for the Mark vIIIxp says)Maybe different for the "non XP version?"

billfitzmaurice · #20 05-09-2011, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My name is Mudd

If a mfgr claims that this pairing works well together, is that mostly marketing or are there times when a mis-matched stack CAN actually work well together, assuming that they were engineered as a 'matched' set?

It's always marketing. The only 'matched set' engineering is when they make the cabs the same width for stacking. More than a few companies even use the same box to house a 1x15 and 4x10. If you think that amounts to 'engineering' there's a bridge that goes from Brooklyn to Manhattan that you might be interested in purchasing.
That doesn't mean dissimilar cabs can't sound OK. But, and now it's post #51 where I've said so, virtually any
two cabs together will sound better than either alone. But matched sets will almost always sound better than mixed.

Quote:

I use a Hartke 115XL and a Hartke 2.5 XL that has 2 10's and a 5" tweeter. I run them with a GK 800RB in bi-amp mode and it sounds great to me. So if I understand this correctly, as long as I run bi-amp everything should be fine. It's only if I run mono that there would be phase problems. I have had it set up both ways and I do like the way it sounds bi-amped better. Just never knew why. LOL. BTW, the GK does not have any numbers on the crossover knob. I set it by ear and it sounds best to me around 10:00 O'Clock. Any one have any thoughts on this?

if it sounds good it is good. But...fully 2/3 of the size of your 2x10 is there to allow it to work into the lows. Since you're not using it for lows it's three times the size it needs to be to do what it's doing.