Question: Tube vs. SS and power?

[BuzzKing]

I have never played through an all tube head. I have only used hybrids or SS heads. I am thinking of buying an all tube head for the tonal quaities.

I see that most all-tube heads are in the 200-300 watt power range. I am assuming thats largely the limit you can acheive with tubes especially considering the weight. I also see a lot of comments suggesting that's all the power you need. However, for most gigs I use a 600-1000 watt hybrid/SS amp and would never be able to cut through the mix (without PA support) with a 200-300 watt head. Understanding there is only about a 3 dB drop in volume with half the wattage.

Is there an inherent difference with the "loudness" per watt with all-tube heads or are they usually paired with large cabs like 8X10 or 2X15 to move a lot of air? Given that in theory there is ~3-6 dB increase volume increase for doubling speaker area at same wattage.

Just wondering cause I don't want to spen a lot of money on an amp I can't gig with.

Thanks,
BuzzKing

[Deluge Of Sound]

It depends on whether you want clean headroom or not.

That said, I've never heard anyone say that an SVT didn't give them enough volume.

[Sartori]

I can't imagine anyone who's not in a doom band needing more volume than an SVT had to offer.

Basically, tube amps compress before they have audible breakup. After they do distort, and the slightest distortion on them is something many people find they actually like, they may be putting out far more than their rated power.

It's not that they're louder per watt than an SS amp, it's just that their distortion happens in a different way, and so one can get a bit more usable volume even after the early stages of that distortion begin.

[JimmyM]

+1 for sartori. a 300w svt can probably put out 700w in peak power if you get past its clean volume.

[Zanpa]

MMMMMM SVT

[JimmyM]

kaiserslautern??? my parents lived in kaiserslautern for a year in the 50's!

[Jim C]

Originally Posted by BuzzKing

I also see a lot of comments suggesting that's all the power you need. However, for most gigs I use a 600-1000 watt hybrid/SS amp and would never be able to cut through the mix (without PA support) with a 200-300 watt head. Understanding there is only about a 3 dB drop in volume with half the wattage.
Thanks,
BuzzKing

The number of speakers in a cabinet helps determine speaker cabinet effeciency. For example, my SVT headthrough a 1x15 cabinet is not nearly as loud as my 1,000+ watt pre/power rig.
That same SVT head through say an 8x10 cabinet is very loud. With that said, my SVP-CL pre with a power amp does not sound enough like an SVT for me to use it often (which was the reason I went down that path in the first place).

If you're going tubes, cabinet weight should not play into the decision IMO.

[coreyfyfe]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

kaiserslautern??? my parents lived in kaiserslautern for a year in the 50's!

I wonder how the Kaiser felt about that.



Moving on, yes a tube amp will "appear" to sound louder. See if you can test one out before you dive full in. I'm sure you'll be impressed but always good to get a test run before making a monetary commitment. That said, I've never been at a loss for volume with an SVT and a good sized cab. Even with my smaller 100ish watt tube amps I'm usually good. The only time I had an issue was with a bassman 70 and an 8 ohm 4x10 cab, but apparently the mix in the crowd was good - just meant I didn't have a monitor.

["Q"]

FWIW my old Peavey Classic 400 was the loudest amp I've ever heard, I took it in to have some work done on it and the tech told me that when he was testing the power output it was starting to melt his 1000w resistive load.

That thing would eat an SWR 750 as an appetizer.

[kosmicwizard]

Do a search I am sure there are 1 million different tube vs. SS "debates" that have gone on here over the years. I wonder if there are more of those, P vs. J, or "Wahts the best ______ for medal?!?!?" threads. Cheers.

[BuzzKing]

Thanks for the replies so far.

Do a search I am sure there are 1 million different tube vs. SS "debates" that have gone on here over the years.

I am aware of that and have read some of those threads. I am not trying to bring up a tube vs. SS debate. I am simply looking for some advice on a specific question regarding tube amps. I have typically been one to use high wattage SS amps into an Eden 410 cabinet. I am interested in trying some new things with my rig but one thing I don't want to sacrifice is the volume I currently have. I see a lot of you using lower wattage tube amps typically into large cabinets that seem very satisfied with the loudness.

I am well aware that many things affect loudness/voume of the rig including but not limited to speaker efficiency, amp efficiency, impedance matching amp to cab, speaker area, wattage, stage and room conditions, EQ, and so on and so forth. I am just trying to get a rough idea if the lower wattage of a tube amp when matched with an appropriate cabinet can be affectively used in a loud band without damage to the compenents. For example, my bet is a 300 watt tube amp matched to a high quality 610 or 810 cabinet will likely be just as loud as a higher wattage SS amp into a 410. I was just hoping to get some real world experience. THanks.

BK

[Jim C]

It sounds like you knew the basic answer to the question that you asked.
The direct comparison of 300 watt tube w/ 6x10 vs. "higher wattage" SS w/ 4x10 is in fact meaningless without specific details IMO.

[kosmicwizard]

The surface area of the cones has more of an impact on how loud you are in comparison to how many watts you have. I don't know the exact numbers off the top of my head, but lets just say for example sake that you need double the power to notice a 3 Db difference in volume. If as JimmyM says you can push an SVT into the 700 Watts arena. Then you would need 1400 Watts to get 3 Db louder, and 2800 Watts to get 6 Db louder. Speaker cabs on the other hand are not like that. I added a 2X15 to my 8X10, deeper, fuller, louder! Love it! Cheers.