Rackmount preamp like the Mesa Carbines??

groovaholic · #1 09-01-2012, 06:21 PM

I recently switched amps from a preamp/poweramp rack to a Mesa M6 Carbine.

Formerly, I had been counting on my preamp to bring some gain/overdrive to the table, but I came to realize that no amp without power tubes was going to break up the way I wanted it to. Got a Way Huge Pork Loin and have been VERY happy.

I absolutely LOVE the tone and immediacy of the M6, but I also find that I'm missing the headroom that I used to have.

I play aggressive hard rock on a Dingwall 5-string, dropped down to A about 50% of the time.

So I'm looking into an M9, but I'm not sure that a 50% increase in wattage is going to bring enough extra headroom to the table.

I want to know if there are any rackmount preamps that bring that kind of quick attack; the Demeter VTBP-201(s) comes to mind, but is a little too pure and clear sounding for what I want. I've had a Trace Elliot V-Type, and that's on my short list right now.

Any other preamps I should be looking at?

Thanks!
John

christw · #2 09-01-2012, 06:27 PM

I've recently bought a Hughes and Kettner BATT for the same reasons. It's a neat little 1/2 rack preamp with a 5w tube amplifier built into it. It'll do clean but I think it's strength is in the switchable pre/power amp outs and built in power soak to allow 12AX7 overdrive, EL84 overdrive, or both! I was running it before my Mesa Buster 210 at my last rehearsal for some touch sensitive comp/overdrive and it worked great. I had plenty of consistent volume and barely pushed the Mesa at all. I've yet to come even close to pulling all the tones it has available too.

RickenBoogie · #3 09-01-2012, 06:47 PM

What cab are you using with the M6? A large cab with that amp should kill. Users report the M9 to be much louder than the M6, btw. Again, it's more about the cabs you're using.

bassfart · #4 09-01-2012, 06:53 PM

My M6 has plenty of headroom. I set the gain at 12:00 and the master at 9:00 and I blow the roof off the place.

walterw · #5 09-01-2012, 07:15 PM

the M9 has an unsettling amount of headroom. its compressor circuit comes in handy just so you won't be afraid of hitting your bass hard with the thing!

+1 to the idea of a carbine preamp, but when i brought it up to a boogie rep at our store one day, he seemed confused as to why anyone would want that

groovaholic · #6 09-01-2012, 07:18 PM

I'm running the M6 into a Mesa 610 Powerhouse.
That qualifies as a "Big Cab"....I hope.

Settings-wise, I set my gain right around noon with the input set to active and the EQ controls run flat. I'm LOUD by 9:00 on the master (105-108 db per my decibel meter) but feel like the low B is just about out of headroom.

I think my requirements for low end headroom are unusual & I've been playing preamp/power-amp racks long enough to get used to that kind of almost limitless headroom.

So, back to preamps...is there anything out there that gets close to the tone and feel of the Carbine?

jacojbass · #7 09-01-2012, 07:22 PM

if you need to play louder than a m9 gives you......I don't think it exists, aside from a PA.

groovaholic · #8 09-01-2012, 07:28 PM

It's not that I need it to be louder, but that I've gotten used to that feeling of reserve power.

And it's how the amp behaves as it approaches its limits.

My Peavey Classic 400 has less power than the Mesa, but compresses and gets grindy when I hit it hard, so the limitations aren't as apparent.

Mr. BassmanPT · #9 09-01-2012, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacojbass

if you need to play louder than a m9 gives you......I don't think it exists, aside from a PA.

mesa titan

**CL400Peavey** · #10 09-01-2012, 08:17 PM

I would check out an ART PC II. It might be what you are looking for.

Jim Carr · #11 09-01-2012, 08:18 PM

Use the M6 as a Pre-amp, get a Crest CA9, and bridge it.

The CA9 can give 2000 watts @ 4 ohms (1kHz, 0.01% THD+N) and 1800W @ 8 ohms, both bridged mono.

Hizzoner · #12 09-01-2012, 08:39 PM

I have played with my m9 extensively and seriously wonder how it is possible to use all the power on tap...and it is 2 ohm capable to boot!...no prob with headroom ever...I mean EVER! and it is light for the power it has

I have never played a gig where the volume was beyond 9 oclock...whether the speakers were a pair of mesa ph 112's, a high powered 410, or an ampeg svt 810..it slays with them all

do a side by side with the m9 and any pre/power combo and see if you can tell a difference in output and tone shaping ability combined with weight..

lomo · #13 09-01-2012, 08:58 PM

Forget the active setting: IMHO you will be faaaar happier with the passive one, even when using a high output bass. Headroom on the M9 is ridiculous, silly, astounding :-) IMHO the active setting is a bit of a tone downgrade as well. YMMV.

Quote:

Originally Posted by groovaholic

I'm running the M6 into a Mesa 610 Powerhouse.
That qualifies as a "Big Cab"....I hope.

Settings-wise, I set my gain right around noon with the input set to active and the EQ controls run flat. I'm LOUD by 9:00 on the master (105-108 db per my decibel meter) but feel like the low B is just about out of headroom.

I think my requirements for low end headroom are unusual & I've been playing preamp/power-amp racks long enough to get used to that kind of almost limitless headroom.

So, back to preamps...is there anything out there that gets close to the tone and feel of the Carbine?

groovaholic · #14 09-01-2012, 10:28 PM

I'll have to check my M6 into my other cabs (pair of Sunn 4x10 from 1999-2000) to see if it's the amp or the cabs that are hitting their limits.

I just think it unlikely that the M6 would be able to push the PH610 far enough to get cone breakup, but it's possible.

I'm very happy for all of you who have plenty of headroom with the M6 -- and I wish I was one of you because the amp sounds AMAZING -- but I've always been a high-power kind of guy...

I've replaced bassists in bands who had been gigging with 100-watt 1x15" combos; and I roll in with 2400 watts and a pair of 4x10s.

I guess the point may be that I'm NOT used to hearing my amps at the boundaries of their capabilities, so it's disconcerting for me and I'm making a big deal about nothing.

But if that's what I'm used to and comfortable with, it brings me back to the preamp/power amp solution & hoping for a preamp that approximates the sound of the Carbine.

And as much as I might want to keep the Carbine for a pre and substitute an even LARGER power amp, doing so is not within my budget.

j.kernodle · #15 09-01-2012, 10:36 PM

to your point. I picked the Demeter into a crest ca power amp to get that hard hitting fast attack sound you mention. if I want any dirt I use my vt bass pedal. I had been using a Mesa M6 prior to that.

groovaholic · #16 09-01-2012, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.kernodle

to your point. I picked the Demeter into a crest ca power amp to get that hard hitting fast attack sound you mention. if I want any dirt I use my vt bass pedal. I had been using a Mesa M6 prior to that.

Exactly! I think there are a lot of good preamps that I may have overlooked when I was searching for the dirt!

I appreciate the assurances that the M6/PH610 is up to the task. It really IS an amazingly bad@$$ setup.

But, with my bass, my hands, and to my ears, it's not doing exactly what I need it to do.

This just means that cool deals and killer gear will soon be available in the Classified section...

**Stephent28** · #17 09-01-2012, 11:45 PM

Since you are still hanging on to the Sunn cabs, I would recommend that you give the Conrad c4 bass preamp some thought. Designed and built by hand by the founder of Sunn, it is a pretty sweet unit.

http://www.conradamps.com/www.conrad...ss_Preamp.html

I got a feeling this one will break up like you want it to.....pure tube power!

Jim Carr · #18 09-01-2012, 11:55 PM

One of the MOST amazing sounding rigs I ever used (back in the '90's) was '71 Fretless P-bass through a Demeter vtbp201 pre into a CA9 with a Goliath II cab.

That said, a used CA9 is ~$500.

groovaholic · #19 09-02-2012, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephent28

Since you are still hanging on to the Sunn cabs, I would recommend that you give the Conrad c4 bass preamp some thought. Designed and built by hand by the founder of Sunn, it is a pretty sweet unit.

http://www.conradamps.com/www.conrad...ss_Preamp.html

I got a feeling this one will break up like you want it to.....pure tube power!

For what it is, and the pedigree behind it, the Conrad preamp is VERY reasonably priced.

My Sunn cabs aren't the original Woodstock-era Sunns -- they're from when Fender bought the name and tried to roll out Sunn as their "If it's too loud, you're too old" line.

The cabs were contemporaries of the 300 Pro all tube amp and 1200H 2-rackspace head. Those same amps are still avaiable, but with Fender badges on them.

Anyhow, I've had the cabs for 13 years now. They may not be perfect or hi-fi or accurate, but they just WORK for me.

BBQV · #20 09-02-2012, 02:22 AM

A friend of mine uses an M9 through Mesa 2x15" + 2x10" cabs and it's ridiculously loud! Stupid, silly, crazy, use any word you want, it's bone crushing, skin-melting, breathtaking, it will re-furnish your room.

If you need more than that, I don't know what you're after. Probably some kind of military device... Get one, it will sort your headroom problems out.