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09-12-2010, 03:18 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The wild wild midwest | | | Ran out of headroom?
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On the gig yesterday, I was running my momark lmk into a berg hs 410 with my sadowsky will lee. I had the onboard bass boosted 40% and the bass on the lmk at 2-3 oclock. The gain at 11 oclock, the master at 10-11 oclock. It was an outside gig and it was when i turned up to these settings, my bass started to sound compressed or it had a "pumping" sound to it. Is this from a lack of headroom on the momark or the cab's capabilities? Was I asking for too much low end? |
09-12-2010, 04:11 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Dallas, TX | | | Probably yes, you were pushing too much lows. Try boosting the low mids instead. Also, yes, it was probably the cab that ran out of juice, not the amp. Adding a 2nd 8 ohm cab to what you have will most likely solve both problems.
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09-12-2010, 04:38 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The wild wild midwest | | | the cab is 4 ohm |
09-12-2010, 04:50 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brookfield, CT | | Quote:
Originally Posted by RickenBoogie  Probably yes, you were pushing too much lows. Try boosting the low mids instead. Also, yes, it was probably the cab that ran out of juice, not the amp. | I disagree- it was probably the amp. Pumping indicates protective compression coming on. Remember, outdoor playing eats up something like 10 times the power compared to indoors.
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09-12-2010, 06:08 PM
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Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design | | Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New Hampshire | | Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtPoorRobins It was an outside gig | Outdoors you need twice the speaker complement to reach the same levels as indoors. |
09-12-2010, 06:26 PM
|  | Registered User | | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice Outdoors you need twice the speaker complement to reach the same levels as indoors. | Due to a lack of bass-enhancing boundary reflections? |
09-12-2010, 06:49 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Louisville, KY | | | Also, 40% bass boost on a Sadowsky is quite a lot..... IME.
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09-12-2010, 07:10 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Texas | | My guess, you ran out of cab. But, don't despair- with another 410 cab you'll run out of amp a few db later...  |
09-12-2010, 07:16 PM
| | Registered User | | | | Equal-loudness contour
As I understand this, the louder an amp is turned up, the less bass boost is required to maintain the same degree of perceived low end.
Needlessly bass-boosting a turned-up amp eats headroom. |
09-12-2010, 07:18 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Texas | | | The way I read that, you're backwards.... but I've had more that a few..... |
09-12-2010, 07:34 PM
| | Registered User | | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Plstrns The way I read that, you're backwards.... but I've had more that a few..... | Have you tried the hearing test link in my sig?
You'll need your best headphones.
Please heed the warnings on that page. |
09-12-2010, 07:41 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Texas | | No, but perhaps something is missing from the graph's explaination? That looks to me like the higher the SPL, the higher the mids/ highs are  . Thats just the way I've experienced it as well. |
09-12-2010, 07:49 PM
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Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design | | Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New Hampshire | | Quote:
Originally Posted by MIJ-VI Due to a lack of bass-enhancing boundary reflections? | Yes. For the loss of one reflecting surface you lose 6dB of axial low frequency output. That 6dB is the difference between one cab and two. Quote: |
Needlessly bass-boosting a turned-up amp eats headroom.
| If you've lost 6dB of low frequency output due to lack of boundary reinforcement boosting the bass will be perceived as necessary, not needless.
Last edited by billfitzmaurice : 09-12-2010 at 08:17 PM.
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09-12-2010, 08:01 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Texas | | | Acually, I could be a DumbAzz, and most of us could.... But after reading your graph I CERTAINLY say ; you have things backwards- The higher the SPL= the lower (SPL) the lows...
Last edited by Plstrns : 09-12-2010 at 08:18 PM.
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09-12-2010, 08:02 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Tasmania, Australia | | | is that a 500w @ 4 ohms power in that amp?
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09-12-2010, 08:04 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Texas | | | 500W @ 4 yes |
09-12-2010, 09:21 PM
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Endorsing Artist: Aurora Strings | | Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northeast Missouri | | Quote:
Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice Outdoors you need twice the speaker complement to reach the same levels as indoors. | Hmmm, every time we play outdoors i probably run half the volume i do indoors. may just be the places we play but some of them are pretty good size. i always end up having to turn down from my normal level.
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09-12-2010, 10:12 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NY | | | I try to adhere to the following rule of thumb - "Outdoor show = real PA." |
09-13-2010, 12:29 AM
| | Registered User | | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice Yes. For the loss of one reflecting surface you lose 6dB of axial low frequency output. That 6dB is the difference between one cab and two.
If you've lost 6dB of low frequency output due to lack of boundary reinforcement boosting the bass will be perceived as necessary, not needless. | This makes sense to me. (And it's also good to know that doubling the # of cabs is useful when playing outdoors.)
About the Equal-loudness contour. Am I mistaken in believing that a bass boost which helps an amp sound good at low volumes is not needed when the the rig is tuned up louder? If so, why?
Thank you. |
09-13-2010, 01:41 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa | | | It's to do with the way the human ear hears mid frequencies louder at low volume, hence the "loud" setting on most car stereos which is a low and high end boost. As you increase the volume that mid boosted curve the human ear hears starts to flatten out so you need less low and high end boost as the volume increases to keep things relatively flat...
Or at least thats the way it was explained to me...? | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | 
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