Rant: guitar players who don't "get" bass gear

BillMason · #1 08-23-2011, 04:45 AM

Ok, disclaimer: maybe it's me.

I have an Avatar SB112 cab, the one that does 500 watts through a single 12" ceramic speaker at 4 Ohms, and weighs about 50 Lbs.

Went into L&M to trade it in on a GK MB115. One sales guy never heard of Avatar (of course), and checked out their website to find the list price of my cab, which is already less expensive than anything similar they might stock, which is mostly Traynor since they're L&M. He figured based on that price that they would likely try to sell it for $150, which means they'd give me 70% of that *if* they decided to take it. Then he started muttering about the fact that it was 4 Ohms instead of 8.

He and the assistant manager both agreed that they didn't want to take it in as they figured not many bass players would want a single 112 cab at 4 Ohms, as they wouldn't be able to add a second cab.

Ok, I get that... More speakers = more loudness... however, *I* am a bass player and *I* bought it, and Avatar caters to bass players and *they* made it and successfully sell the same model in enough volume to continue to make it.

I bought it because it is one cab... and I'd get all the wattage out of my amp and only need to carry in one cab. The tone was awesome, and I never suffered for lack of volume, except once in a ballroom with a mega-high ceiling and a bad sound guy.

These guys are both guitar players, and I've dealt with them enough to understand that they see bass players as a subset of guitar players, without distinct logic when it comes to gear choices. They're both great guys, but IME they really don't get bass players. I find this frustrating.

Off topic, I also found it frustrating that they'd only give me $105 credit towards a 500W bass speaker cabinet in good condition... I understand their POV, but I find it frustrating. Then again, they *wouldn't* give me even that, they wouldn't take it.

Anyone else run into this issue with guitar player sales people at music stores? Anyone else think I'm nuts for thinking a 112 4 Ohm cab at 500 Watts is a great idea for many applications?

Consider the Mark Bass CMD121P or CMD121H... or the Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0-12T...

rodl2005 · #2 08-23-2011, 04:58 AM

I get where you're coming from, but afaik, a single 12" won't handle much more than 150w or so before it'll be pushed too hard. So, I, myself, wouldn't want a 4 ohm 112 unless I had a very low powerered amp, that put out about 200w @ 4 ohms

Tupac · #3 08-23-2011, 05:04 AM

In all fairness, I don't know crap about guitar gear.

kdiggity · #4 08-23-2011, 05:21 AM

IMO, this has less to do with them 'getting it', and more with them thinking 'is this going to sit here and collect dust? Yes.'

Please don't take offense, as none is intended. Just offering my opinion based on the info you've provided.

-K

BillMason · #5 08-23-2011, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdiggity

IMO, this has less to do with them 'getting it', and more with them thinking 'is this going to sit here and collect dust? Yes.'

Please don't take offense, as none is intended. Just offering my opinion based on the info you've provided.

-K

Oh I know, I just disagreed with thy assessment they were making. :-) No offense taken, thus my disclaimer. :-)

chadds · #6 08-23-2011, 05:25 AM

You mostly get low balled when you trade. Why not sell outright?
Both of your points of view are sound actually.
They aren't doing you a favor. They have to turn around and sell it for a profit. That it's 4ohms makes it desirable to 50% less people than if it were 8. I understand why you bought it and why many of us have a head cab solution that we know we won't expand but hey that's not the point.
Don't blame them though.

BillMason · #7 08-23-2011, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadds

You mostly get low balled when you trade. Why not sell outright?
Both of your points of view are sound actually.
They aren't doing you a favor. They have to turn around and sell it for a profit. That it's 4ohms makes it desirable to 50% less people than if it were 8. I understand why you bought it and why many of us have a head cab solution that we know we won't expand but hey that's not the point.
Don't blame them though.

Yeah I have it listed for sale on local classifieds... It's collecting dust in my basement also. :-) Point taken.

blackba · #8 08-23-2011, 06:35 AM

These guitar players are sales people. There a good sales people in the large music stores out there, but generally they are few and far between. I do find that the big box stores typically don't have many people that understand bass gear.

As far as a 4ohm 112, that is a pretty cool idea. I have a 4ohm Ampeg BXT210M that I use with my Ampeg SVT3pro when I want it to be more portable. The 4ohm 112 would serve a similar function so it gets the thumbs up from me....

Son of Bovril · #9 08-23-2011, 07:01 AM

I have the same BXT210M as blackba and I can totally understand the need for a 4ohm 112, although I also agree that there probably isn't a huge demand for them...

I run a pre-power config so having a 4ohm cab on either side gets more headroom if you are running the amp in stereo mode, plus if you are just playing small venues/acoustic shows and or coffee shops then a 4ohm 112 is an awesome investment.

Guitar amps almost always run 8 and 16ohm so guitarists tend to not realize that there are many bass heads out there capable of running safely and efficiently at 2ohms as well

oldcatfish · #10 08-23-2011, 07:08 AM

Quote: "So, I, myself, wouldn't want a 4 ohm 112 unless I had a very low powerered amp, that put out about 200w @ 4 ohms"

I just bought an Eden 112 4 ohm as an extension for my Roland CB100. I had to search around for it. If anyone owns a Roland, contact the OP to buy that cab!
In my opinion the OP's Avatar would also be an ideal cab for rehearsal and small gigs for anyone with a micro head such as an Ampeg PF350, GK MB200, etc.

dbase · #11 08-23-2011, 07:17 AM

My salesman who knows me because I buy all my gear from him just comes right out and tells me "I'm going to have to beat you over the head and steal your trade-in"... I understand that he has to make a profit to stay in business.. That's the nature of the beast. If you were buying a more expensive rig, I'll bet they would have taken yours as trade-in.

MuzikMan · #12 08-23-2011, 07:25 AM

I think they were absolutely correct in their assessment. A four ohm 1x12 cab is very limiting in overall volume for most people. The client base just isn't there for them.

4-string · #13 08-23-2011, 08:13 AM

I am a bassplayer, and, frankly, I don't get it either. A 4 Ohms 1x12 cab to "get all the wattage" is strange to me. If it were one of the new 1x12 designs that can actually handle (and maybe even need?) lots of watts it would be a different story though.

As has been pointed out, there is probably a limited market for a traditonal 4Ohms 1x12. Or at least there should be.

crguti · #14 08-23-2011, 08:41 AM

who wants a single speaker cab at 4 ohms? not even guitar players.

heymelbs · #15 08-23-2011, 08:47 AM

Another issue is that the Avatar brand is not well-known is many circles. On this sight and in some music stores they are very well respected. Try selling the cab in the TB classifieds to an audeince that knows the quality.

BillMason · #16 08-23-2011, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-string

I am a bassplayer, and, frankly, I don't get it either. A 4 Ohms 1x12 cab to "get all the wattage" is strange to me. If it were one of the new 1x12 designs that can actually handle (and maybe even need?) lots of watts it would be a different story though.

As has been pointed out, there is probably a limited market for a traditonal 4Ohms 1x12. Or at least there should be.

Understood, but my head drove 480W at 4 Ohms, and the cab delivered 500W. It was all there, trust me... For the small venue gigs that we did, my master volume dial never went past 4, and was still clean at 8, the highest I ever ran it. For larger venues, I had PA support anyway, often with subs.

BillMason · #17 08-23-2011, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillMason

For larger venues, I had PA support anyway, often with subs.

...and kept my stage volume down.

kdiggity · #18 08-23-2011, 09:18 AM

Dude, don't feel the necessity to defend your equipment decisions and ownership.

If you like it, rock it!

-K

(Peeps are more explaining why they think they shop dudes didn't want the gear, not about your choice to use it.. I think/hope anyway.)

JTE · #19 08-23-2011, 09:44 AM

I'm a bass player and I bought a single 4Ω cabinet in order to extract the maximum power out of my amp. It was a stupid and pointless endeavor. Why? Because as soon as the single Eden D410XLT/WT-400 rig wasn't enough, I had no options. I had to get another amplifier to drive another cabinet. Had I purchased an 8Ω D410XLT all those years ago, I'd have gotten a LOT more air movement by simply adding another cabinet. The difference in my particular case between getting 235 WRMS @ 8Ω and 400 WRMS @ 4Ω is sonically negligible. But getting the additional air movement by doubling the speakers was a HUGE change.

Side-by-side with two WT-400 and my 4Ω box against a friend's pair of 8Ω boxes showed me the error. We tried both amps driving a single cabinet and side by side neither amp sounded any different whether it was driving a single 8Ω box or the single 4Ω box. But when we hooked up BOTH cabinets it was a huge change.

In addition, the power rating of 500 watts on the Avatar SB-112 doesn't mean it's safe to run it with 500 WRMS all day. As is often repeated (and more often ignored here) the power rating of a speaker is where the voice coil will melt from too much power going through it. The speaker will most likely be destroyed by over excursion of the cone well before it gets there.

The store is right. It doesn't matter what some people do, it matters what MOST people will do. A single 4Ω 1x12 from an relatively unknown manufacturer (and Avatar IS relatively unknown because the have no presence in the print media nor ANY major retailers- TB and other 'net fora are still a very small part of who buys gear at stores) is certainly worth less to a retail store than it would be if it was 8Ω.

BTW, I have a pair of Avatar cabinets, a SB-112 and a B-210 that I like very well. But I also know that what they're worth on the retail market is pretty small. Certainly not worth trying to trade them anywhere in a retail environment. It's part of the cost of buying them- they don't have great resale value.

John

BillMason · #20 08-23-2011, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdiggity

Dude, don't feel the necessity to defend your equipment decisions and ownership.

If you like it, rock it!

-K

(Peeps are more explaining why they think they shop dudes didn't want the gear, not about your choice to use it.. I think/hope anyway.)

Yeah, I know, I get it. :-) thanks.