re Tubes and hybrids

[mambo4]

Not really a Versus thread, but an honest query

I use a hybrid amp (tube pre + power amp)
subscribing the often repeated idea that you get that "tube sound"
in the preamp and boost it with the power section...saving money and weight.

Made the mistake of playing through a tube amp this weekend
actually a guitar amp : http://wizardamplification.com/vintagecombo.htm

And I noticed one thing that I haven't been able to replicate:
I play light it sounds clean and smooth
I dig in and it sounds wonderfully , aggressively dirty and distorted but not louder
I have looked at various pedals and effects, channel switching ect to allow me to change up my tone on the fly
but this level of responsiveness & compression, this ability to adjust my tone so drastically with only my hands, was a revelation.

Is that something you can only get from power tubes?

[superbeast101]

I believe that what you have mentioned there will only be achieved through a full tube amp, all of the tube modulators out there that claim to replicate the tube tone are never quite the same, no matter how good, so if that's what you're after that's what you will need. I personally dont like the tone a tube amp delivers very much, so I'm quite appy with a solid state

[bongomania]

This is one of those "holy grail" questions. Everybody who likes the all-tube amp tone comes around wondering if there is some other way to get that sound, and most end up disappointed. Now, the emulators are getting better all the time--Line6 and Tech21 have some amazing emulations in their product lines. But even so, you'll still get people on here saying the emulations are "nowhere near" the real thing.

If all you're asking is "can preamp tubes by themselves do this", then the answer is generally no. It really is all about the power tubes. Or, depending on your personal tastes, a good emulation of a power tube section.

[flyingfinbar]

This same exact thing happened to me when I borrowed a friends SVT CL.....I now am the proud owner of an all-tube SVT IIpro

That's one of the things that really sold me on the all-tube amp. It's just so sensitive to your attack!

[MarkusBass]

You can get this for sure from a Walkabout. I'm addicted to it!

[mambo4]

There's alot of demos of amp/pedal tones on the web,
but I haventl seen many that really focus the response of the tone to *just* your plucking
It's always "here's the slap tone..."
(twiddles knods and switches)" "here's a more old school tone..."
(twiddles knods and switches) " heres a more aggressive tone..."
etc...

great, now I'm gonna spend the next 20 years searching for "my tone"...lugging around 50+ lb heads and $500 mics...arguing with sound guys over DI's...
And I was so happy just pointing at my guitar player and laughing...

[bongomania]

Check out my thread in the fx forum on the Plush Valve Job. The clip I recorded there isn't so great really, but it does do an excellent job of demoing the touch sensitivity.

[hennessybass]

I'm able to get that response with an all tube amp . I use a 30w ampeg b15, crank it to about 7/8, and it does exactly what you talk about. More often I use a Bassman 100. It's a little harder to get the effect with that amp - more watts=more clean headroom. I have been able to get that effect by jumping the channels on the bassman.

Saw a band play this past monday and the bass player had a Ric Bass, some solid state GK head and a Genz 2x12 cab. He was also running a Tube Screamer. Killer tone! Very John Entwistle.

[R. Laevinus]

Originally Posted by MarkusBass

You can get this for sure from a Walkabout. I'm addicted to it!

Yep, it's true. I've met a few hybrid amps that will do this, although they tend to be pricey.

But I sold my Traynor YBA-200 when I got my Walkbout - with a little knob tweaking, I could get indistinguishable tone and responsiveness. AND I could get it to sound a whole lot better, too!

What hybrid amp are you playing through?

(EDIT)
I see you're using a GB - I would suspect that that's the issue right there. Not knocking GB by any means, they're wonderful amps! But I've felt, from the limited time I've spent with them, that they have a very 'modern' sort of tone and response. If you're looking for real tube tone and performance from a hybrid head, I think you're going to need to check out the hybrids that are designed more closely to emulate a vintage tube head in terms of feel. As mentioned, the Walkabout is a great choice, I couldn't reccomend it more. I'd assume the M-Pulse 600 would be just as good.

[mambo4]

thanks for the link, bongo...

that pedal does exactly what I describe...definately will let them know a bass version would be desirable.

Of course it doesn't sound exactly like a tube amp..but it has that touch response quality I like.

[mambo4]

Mesa sounds like something to explore. Does the effect carry over into the DI?
how much do the walkabout heads go for, US?

I would hate to turn my back on Genz Benz, they are great.
But that responsiveness...me want

[MarkusBass]

Yes...it does carry over to the DI...and they have an absolutely great DI section.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by flyingfinbar

This same exact thing happened to me when I borrowed a friends SVT CL.....I now am the proud owner of an all-tube SVT IIpro

That's one of the things that really sold me on the all-tube amp. It's just so sensitive to your attack!

The other day I saw an SVT2 Pro at GC. I tried to lift it to see how heavy it is, but somone had bolted it down.

[ishouldbeking]

Originally Posted by MarkusBass

You can get this for sure from a Walkabout. I'm addicted to it!

just bought my own Walkabout, and this is -- so far -- the only hybrid amp I've played that nails that feeling of playing a tube amp. probably has to do with there being a tube in the preamp AND another in the power section working in conjunction with the mosfets. i don't really care how they do it, but it sounds fantastic.

the head by itself goes for $1000 or you can get it as part of a combo (but the head can be detached and used w/ other cabs, it's like a convertible combo) for $1299. I got the combo.

[flyingfinbar]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

The other day I saw an SVT2 Pro at GC. I tried to lift it to see how heavy it is, but somone had bolted it down.

It's definitely substantial.... it's spec'd out at 70 pounds, and I have it in a super heavy duty, shock mounted road case with power conditioning, a tuner and a wireless....thankfully it's on casters!

[MarkusBass]

Originally Posted by ishouldbeking

just bought my own Walkabout, and this is -- so far -- the only hybrid amp I've played that nails that feeling of playing a tube amp. probably has to do with there being a tube in the preamp AND another in the power section working in conjunction with the mosfets. i don't really care how they do it, but it sounds fantastic.

the head by itself goes for $1000 or you can get it as part of a combo (but the head can be detached and used w/ other cabs, it's like a convertible combo) for $1299. I got the combo.

Very cool! I think I saw a head in the classifieds for $550!

[tombowlus]

I will agree that the WalkAbout is one of the few hybrid heads that does a good job of capturing much of the "touch response" of an all-tube head. The Orange Terror Bass is another such beast.

That being said, IME/IMHO, when you are playing an all-tube head of appropriate output power, such that you are able to push the power tubes in/out of saturation, there is a certain magic going on that I have not heard in a solid state or hybrid setup. I remain open to the notion that modeling may get us "there" at some point (and this may even exist today), but I haven't heard it yet.

And BTW, that Fuchs pedal does sound pretty cool, and it's something that I would likely use, but to my ears, that definitely sounds like a preamp tube overdriving, and not at all what I experience from power tube saturation/overdrive.

Tom.

[JimmyM]

ya, that's why at an age when i should be going as small as my decrepit old tired body can take, i'm back using the tubers. i don't even run them dirty at all and i'm still addicted to what the power tubes do. tried the micro rigs, still have one for the most small of small gigs and for rainy outdoor gigs, and while they can be absolutely great sounding, i'm addicted to the beauty of digging into my strings through a tube amp. everyone talks about tube compression, but i feel like my sound is less compressed when i use an all tube amp.

[mambo4]

anther Mesa question:
how are they at customer service?.

[Chef]

Yep.

Originally Posted by MarkusBass

You can get this for sure from a Walkabout. I'm addicted to it!