The Real James Jamerson Amp

[fivestringgecko]

Originally Posted by Bitterdale

Honestly for every poster who claims "old news" there are probably dozens who haven't heard it before.

Remember, there are new members every day.

Thanks for the info.

+1, thanks for the interesting info Dan! I've been a Talkbass member for a while, but just got into Motown a couple years ago. This is the first I've seen of this... I just took the "he used a B15" as gospel.

5sg.

[chadds]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

The original Fender 410 was a bass cab, IIRC. A really BAD bass cab ( open back ! ). I remember guitar players loved them !

Though Jamerson didn't use them they were quite sufficient in a recording environment for the likes of Carol Kaye.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by fivestringgecko

+1, thanks for the interesting info Dan! I've been a Talkbass member for a while, but just got into Motown a couple years ago. This is the first I've seen of this... I just took the "he used a B15" as gospel.

5sg.

Early Motown tracks were, indeed, done with a B-15, and some tracks he recorded after he moved to Cali were also done with a B-15. So it's not altogether out of the blue, this association of Jamerson and the B-15.

[fivestringgecko]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Early Motown tracks were, indeed, done with a B-15, and some tracks he recorded after he moved to Cali were also done with a B-15. So it's not altogether out of the blue, this association of Jamerson and the B-15.

Nah, I do know there was a good amount of truth to the B-15 thing, and is why the B-15 is still my Holy Grail amp. But it's interesting to know he also used that crazy space heater lookin' thing. lol

5sg.

[RS66LB]

-very cool posting, great story and an awesome photo -thanks

[rodl2005]

Originally Posted by fivestringgecko

Nah, I do know there was a good amount of truth to the B-15 thing, and is why the B-15 is still my Holy Grail amp. But it's interesting to know he also used that crazy space heater lookin' thing. lol

5sg.

I wonder if my 'Ol Man's space heater would sound as good?

The photos of him using a B-15 certainly are nice

[pgk]

Originally Posted by Spencer!

I've listened to some of that old Motown stuff off the reels - the tape bleed can be pretty significant. It's one of the reasons why tape just seems to glue a mix together.

tape to an extent sure, but Bleed is what glues a mix together more and gives a live performance it's cohesiveness. bleed is the ultimate "glue", if you know how to utilize it correctly. as Jimmy Page so famously said, "distance equals depth"

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by chadds

Though Jamerson didn't use them they were quite sufficient in a recording environment for the likes of Carol Kaye.

As I stated, at low volume , they sounded pretty good. So did the Fender Concert amp, which David Hood used occaisionally in the studio.

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by Nurb

Thanks for the info. I must add however that I find it funny that some people are obsessing over that tone (not saying it's your case), which I find quite uninspiring. The magic is in the playing.

I find the tone quite inspiring on those early Motown recordings. It's a tone bass players drove themselves nuts in trying to duplicate on the gig. The playing is pure RnB genius on Jamerson's part for sure, but it goes hand in hand with the tone he wanted.

[pgk]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

As I stated, at low volume , they sounded pretty good. So did the Fender Concert amp, which David Hood used occaisionally in the studio.

damn skippy that. listen to just about any beach boys session, ray charles' la sessions, pretty much anything carol cut during that era. that's a 4-10 open back fender concert, mic'd up and No di. that is some great bass tone right there. ditto david hood, 4-10 concert

[elbeau]

We're also forgeting a secret they used after production (taken from motown museum article)
One of the most innovative recording methods during this time was the use of Motown's Echo Room. When visiting the Motown Historical Museum, guests can play with the special effects processes used before electronics could manipulate the music. They used a hole in the ceiling to create reverb, as heard in songs such as "Dancing in the Streets'' and "Where Did Our Love Go,'' and today's tourists can sing and clap in this studio to get similar effects.

Read more:*http://www.city-data.com/articles/Mo...#ixzz2Hg54pLEJ

I'm sure that the "reverb" created is a big part of the sound. The sound engineers also dialed things back if it sounded to overpowering thru the 7watt paper cone speakers most cars had in the 60's. Its a combination that had many revolving parts to it that can't be duplicated due to secrets that are now 6ft under.

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

I find the tone quite inspiring on those early Motown recordings. It's a tone bass players drove themselves nuts in trying to duplicate on the gig. The playing is pure RnB genius on Jamerson's part for sure, but it goes hand in hand with the tone he wanted.

+1
Listening to the Hip-O Deluxe version of Standing In The Shadows of Motown, the second disk has several tracks that feature whole chorus's of Jamerson's bass tracks direct from the original master tapes. It sounds quite different, when you hear it in isolation. Sometimes it's pretty overdriven with a little distortion. He was going after a short sustain that was similar to what you'd get from a Double Bass, and then he would occasionally mute the strings. We often forget that a integral part of his sound was to play alternating the back and front side of his finger, it was called the hook, and will get you a entirely different sound. He also had a his own channel volume control where he controlled his own amount of gain. Essentially, the band heard themselves through one monitor, so in the room at least they had their own mix.

Ric

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

+1
Listening to the Hip-O Deluxe version of Standing In The Shadows of Motown, the second disk has several tracks that feature whole chorus's of Jamerson's bass tracks direct from the original master tapes. It sounds quite different, when you hear it in isolation. Sometimes it's pretty overdriven with a little distortion. He was going after a short sustain that was similar to what you'd get from a Double Bass, and then he would occasionally mute the strings. We often forget that a integral part of his sound was to play alternating the back and front side of his finger, it was called the hook, and will get you a entirely different sound. He also had a his own channel volume control where he controlled his own amount of gain. Essentially, the band heard themselves through one monitor, so in the room at least they had their own mix.

Ric

+1. If you get the box set Earl Grant cd's, there are some live cuts of the Funk Brothers were you can really hear what you describe in Jamerson's technique and sound.

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

+1. If you get the box set Earl Grant cd's, there are some live cuts of the Funk Brothers were you can really hear what you describe in Jamerson's technique and sound.

I think you meant to say Earl Van Dyke. He was the house pianist for Motown. Earl Grant was a pianist, but I'm not aware that he did any recording at Motown. If he did, and Jamerson's on them, I'll run out and get a copy.

Ric

[fivestringgecko]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

I find the tone quite inspiring on those early Motown recordings. It's a tone bass players drove themselves nuts in trying to duplicate on the gig. The playing is pure RnB genius on Jamerson's part for sure, but it goes hand in hand with the tone he wanted.

Exactly why I still lust after a B-15. I bought my Pbass V and put Chromes on it, moved from aluminum cones (Hartke) to traditional drivers and currently run a PF500/PF115HE setup. Close... Still tryin'. Hehehe

I was *this* close to throwing down the $$$$ on one of the Heritage B-15's, but realized I was crazy. $4k (now $5k ) for an amp I'd be totally scared to gig out... I bought my full Portaflex rig AND had a healthy down payment on a new car instead. Lol

5sg.

[JimmyM]

New imported B-15 coming out soon. Don't know when but Hodgy was talking about it a few weeks ago.

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

I think you meant to say Earl Van Dyke. He was the house pianist for Motown. Earl Grant was a pianist, but I'm not aware that he did any recording at Motown. If he did, and Jamerson's on them, I'll run out and get a copy.

Ric

Right. Have'nt had enough coffee yet.

[fivestringgecko]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

New imported B-15 coming out soon. Don't know when but Hodgy was talking about it a few weeks ago.

Interesting. I'll keep an eye out. Announcement at NAMM perhaps?

5sg.

[beans-on-toast]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

If you get the box set Earl Grant cd's, there are some live cuts of the Funk Brothers were you can really hear what you describe in Jamerson's technique and sound.

There are 12 tracks available on The Best of the Funk Brothers: 20th Century Masters - The Millennium Collection that are worth checking out. Nice supplement to Standing in the Shadows. Good sound quality. There are also a couple of Jamerson's tracks on Michael Jackson's The Stripped Mixes where they feature mostly vocals and bass. The non Jamerson tracks are great to listen to as well.

It's been mentioned before but for those who haven't checked it out, some of Jamerson's isolated tracks are available on Rick Suchow's site (ricksuchow, passwd jamerson). Look on YouTube as well.

[jmpiwonka]

i imagine alot of the sound is in his hands, like mentioned previously, "the hook". maybe he was overdriving the preamps with output from his pickup or maybe he was overdriving the pickup (is that even possible?)

i know with my pbass, i don't really get my sound until i start playing with the other dudes and get warmed up. play by myself and i just naturally don't dig in like i do when playing with others.
and i notice my sound gets a bit overdriven sounding once i start playing harder no matter the amp settings or which amp i'm using.