The Real James Jamerson Amp

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

This is a pretty good source for all things Jamerson.

http://www.amazon.com/Standing-Shado...dows+of+motown

While you're right to an extent, I'm pretty sure it is not the source of JimmyM's statement--which is what they were asking about.

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by bongomania

While you're right to an extent, I'm pretty sure it is not the source of JimmyM's statement--which is what they were asking about.

Gotcha. It does say that the earliest recordings he did there were on upright bass. I wonder what mic they used, because these early tracks were done live.

[shwashwa]

jamerson sound = fender amp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...c4exF4D0#t=84s

(proof that its not in the amp)

[seamonkey]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

Well, it was a TUBE DI.

Yeah right
All his sound is due to a "Tube" somewhere distant in the path.
These days, hardly anybody has a tube hi-fi, or a broken tube car radio. like they did "in the day"

Magnetic tape, composite resistors, old style caps - whatever.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by arai

Could you cite your source?
I think it would make for interesting reading and add greatly to the thread. What mics did they use? was the amp isolated?

What? Am I on trial here? That preamp box wasn't built until about a year or two into their hitmaking, and Jamerson used a mic'ed B-15 until then. He also used an upright as well. You're talking early Miracles, Marvin, Marvelettes, etc.

Why does it make Seamonkey so mad that people like tube amps?

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

Yeah right
All his sound is due to a "Tube" somewhere distant in the path.
These days, hardly anybody has a tube hi-fi, or a broken tube car radio. like they did "in the day"

Magnetic tape, composite resistors, old style caps - whatever.

Man, it was just a little joke; have a glass of wine and relax.

[arai]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

What? Am I on trial here? That preamp box wasn't built until about a year or two into their hitmaking, and Jamerson used a mic'ed B-15 until then. He also used an upright as well. You're talking early Miracles, Marvin, Marvelettes, etc.

Why does it make Seamonkey so mad that people like tube amps?

It's is an interesting subject. I heard he used an upright on early recordings but not sure how it was recorded. You seem to state he used the b-15 so matter of factly.
So I wanted to know if it is indeed fact or a guess.
I am still interested if you could cite your source so I could do some further reading rather then take some guy on the internet word for it.

[spacebassed]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Early Motown tracks were, indeed, done with a B-15, and some tracks he recorded after he moved to Cali were also done with a B-15. So it's not altogether out of the blue, this association of Jamerson and the B-15.

Yep.


Jimmy, we better get outta this thread before we get in trouble.

[bongomania]

Even assuming it's true, how do you know? That's the point--not to put anybody on trial or bother you out of the thread, but to find out where the knowledge comes from, and see pics or read first-hand descriptions from people who were there, or who at least personally worked with someone who was there. Anything. Because it's fascinating bass history.

[JimmyM]

OK, so I just spent 20 minutes looking for it, and kept getting flooded with results for the "History Detectives" Jamerson show. But I did find this cool forum exchange with guys who worked at Motown back then. Motown didn't have the preamp in 1961, and they were well under way by then.

http://soulfuldetroit.com/archives/1...tml?1020196543

Probably some other good threads on there but I lost interest. But I'm pretty sure it was on a similar thread. Perhaps someone else can find it easier than I could. I tried.

But whatever. Jamerson used a B-15 in the studio plenty, just not on the Motown stuff recorded in Detroit after they got the preamp.

Now go away

[beans-on-toast]

It is important to remember that Motown had more than the one studio in Detroit. Much of his work was in Motown's Studio A, called the Snake Pit, but he did session work at other facilities as well. Studio A was small and they didn't have much room for amps. This wasn't the case in other rooms.

[arai]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

OK, so I just spent 20 minutes looking for it, and kept getting flooded with results for the "History Detectives" Jamerson show. But I did find this cool forum exchange with guys who worked at Motown back then. Motown didn't have the preamp in 1961, and they were well under way by then.

http://soulfuldetroit.com/archives/1...tml?1020196543

Probably some other good threads on there but I lost interest. But I'm pretty sure it was on a similar thread. Perhaps someone else can find it easier than I could. I tried.

But whatever. Jamerson used a B-15 in the studio plenty, just not on the Motown stuff recorded in Detroit after they got the preamp.

Now go away

Go away? for what? asking you to back up your facts?
Interesting link but it still doesn't answer the question I am asking. You say he used the b-15 plenty. How do you know this?

[beans-on-toast]

Here is a Jamerson interview available on Rick Suchow's site. He talks about using a B-15 on sessions and live. There are several articles on him there that are worth checking out.

[JimmyM]

http://www.ricksuchow.com/press-group-224.html

And there's a discography of most of the stuff he did, lest anyone think he didn't do anything major after the glory days of Motown in Detroit. Probably a lot missing from it, including major sessions he did uncredited in Detroit on the sly from Motown.

So there you go. Jamerson used a B-15 plenty...just not in Motown Detroit once they got the preamp. Are we done poking me with a stick now?

[arai]

Originally Posted by beans-on-toast

Here is a Jamerson interview available on Rick Suchow's site. He talks about using a B-15 on sessions and live. There are several articles on him there that are worth checking out.

Great site, some really good reading on there. I have book marked it for future reading.
Thanks for posting that

[spacebassed]

Originally Posted by arai

Great site, some really good reading on there. I have book marked it for future reading.
Thanks for posting that

There's also a great writeup about the custom Guild M85 built for Phil Lesh, which is now owned by Dan Schwartz. You may have heard that bass on Sheryle Crow's debut album "Tuesday Night Music Club."


btw, Jamerson owned (at least) 3 B15's - a '60 B15 (which was stolen), a '62 B15n (the History Detectives Amp - likely his west coast amp), and the Thiele B15n from "Standing in the Shadows of Motown." The latter was supposedly stashed in Pistol Allen's garage by Jamerson and forgotten. Pistol brought it to be used in the movie taping.

[Fuzzbass]

Originally Posted by beans-on-toast

Here is a Jamerson interview available on Rick Suchow's site. He talks about using a B-15 on sessions and live. There are several articles on him there that are worth checking out.

Jamerson doesn't specify whether the B15 was mic'd or not. Is it unreasonable to speculate that it was only used as a monitor?

I'm not trying to rattle anyone's cage. I'm simply curious whether the B15 was recorded on certain Motown tracks. It's legitimate and reasonable to ask for sources, because "we all know it's true" or "everybody says so" don't count for anything. That's why zombie legends such as "underpowering woofers" don't die.

Consider this a bump for additional enlightenment. Again, it's only historical curiosity. I fully understand that Jamerson's tonal magic came mostly from Jamerson, and I also don't care about tube amp vs DI, so I don't have a dog in the fight.

[beans-on-toast]

Originally Posted by Fuzzbass

Jamerson doesn't specify whether the B15 was mic'd or not. Is it unreasonable to speculate that it was only used as a monitor?

It's an interesting question and I don't know the answer. He clearly states that he used it in sessions.

I'll speculate:
In Motown's small studio, the snake pit, where a lot of hits were recorded, there wasn't a lot of room. They had a monitoring system that they used to alleviate the problem. I think that if he used his B-15 there it was mic'ed. The amp could also have been placed in another room or he could have re-recorded the bass track at the end of the session if space was an issue. Of course he recorded in a lot of other studios where space may not have been a problem.

I can tell you that whenever someone tells me to bring along my B-15, it isn't to use it as a monitor. It records really well and people want to take advantage of that. Although DI was available, I would argue that it is one of the most recorded amps out there.

[Spencer!]

Originally Posted by Fuzzbass

I'm not trying to rattle anyone's cage. I'm simply curious whether the B15 was recorded on certain Motown tracks.

I have it on good authority that the B-15 was never used in sessions after 1965.

[seamonkey]

What I see and read is there's really no hard evidence that on any Jamerson song that a B-15 can be attributed to. Any song may be a B-15, a Mic or a DI. It's not a clear definition that a B-15 was used on any recording. And nobody can actually tell, and prove it that one was. There is no snap your fingers, that's a b-15 moment here.

Jamerson is of historical interest here, and thank gawd recordings are preserved.