Recommended driver for BagEnd 15 cab

**ddbassGA** · #1 01-28-2011, 11:14 AM

I have an older BagEnd compact 15 cab and need to think about replacing the driver. Any recommendations? Thinking Eminence Legend cb15.

**ddbassGA** · #2 01-28-2011, 11:33 AM

Called BagEnd and their replacement E115 is an Eminence made speaker that has same/similar specs as the Legend CB15. Theirs is $175, the Legend is 119 shipped from several sources (PE, MW...).

BurningSkies · #3 01-28-2011, 11:43 AM

Buy the one THEY have spec'ed for the box. Remember, they have a good reason to custom order speakers rather than just choosing an off the shelf version. I'm guessing the places the speakers differ are important and part of the 'undisclosed' side of the design and while they may look similar upon quick perusal, they'll perform differently in that box.

wave rider · #4 01-28-2011, 12:58 PM

Can Bag End rebuild the current driver?

=wr=

**ddbassGA** · #5 01-28-2011, 01:09 PM

I asked and they don't have the recone kit for this.

JGR · #6 01-28-2011, 01:12 PM

I love the stock driver - I'd spend the extra $$. It will also help if you ever decide to resell it.

billfitzmaurice · #7 01-28-2011, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

Buy the one THEY have spec'ed for the box. Remember, they have a good reason to custom order speakers rather than just choosing an off the shelf version.

That's the company line, but in truth more often than not OEM drivers are chosen based purely on the basis of price. There are exceptions, but not many. Often the difference between OEM and off the shelf only extends to spade versus spring loaded terminals.

lbwdog · #8 01-28-2011, 02:33 PM

How large is the port in the rear?
I wonder how a 3015 or 2515 Neo would sound in there.

**ddbassGA** · #9 01-28-2011, 02:44 PM

No need to worry about resale. I've had this cab since new for over 18 years and it's still got a role to play in my setup. If I buy the Eminence Legend I save over 1/3 of the cost, by the time I factor shipping. I get what appears to be the same basket, magnet, voice coil, cone, suspension and quantitative specs as the Eminence made OEM from BE. What else could be that different? (LOL)

Can't imagine I'm going to go too far wrong with the Legend. I'm such a cheap bastard to start with. And I also like the idea of buying an Eminence speaker that says Eminence.

#10 01-28-2011, 03:10 PM

Call Eminence and ask them what replacement driver to install...

They obviously know drivers intimately, and can match specs from OE to off the shelf... That may just prove the Legend is THE one, and you can rest assured you'll get the most - bang for your buck, and tone from your cab.

4Mal · #11 01-28-2011, 05:02 PM

It's more like the Kappa Pro than the legend. The 3015 does not sound good in that cab. Tried that. Very mid rangey. I tried a bunch of 15's - then ordered the correct one from Bag End. My advice would be to take the cheap route - get the correct driver the first time .... the legend is a very lightweight driver in comparison. The mag structures and frame look nothing alike.

Calaverasgrande · #12 01-28-2011, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

That's the company line, but in truth more often than not OEM drivers are chosen based purely on the basis of price. There are exceptions, but not many. Often the difference between OEM and off the shelf only extends to spade versus spring loaded terminals.

Bill you of all people should know that is not the case with Bagend. They are one of those companies that is long on theory (no pun intended). They did kind of start the whole time align thing, and they are unique in offering products that operate below enclosure resonance. As opposed to some companies whose cabinet line is just an adjunct to their amp line which is their main product. Bagend is a cabinet company.
Though yeah, their designs are kind of dated these days. Their 18" bass cab is the only one Icuold ever even attempt to use as a stand alone.

billfitzmaurice · #13 01-28-2011, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calaverasgrande

Bill you of all people should know that is not the case with Bagend.

Do you work for BagEnd and have access to their driver specs? Otherwise what you're saying is pure speculation.

**ddbassGA** · #14 01-28-2011, 11:14 PM

4mal: The specs from BE were 2 1/2" voice coil and 80 oz magnet with cast basket. Those are Legend specs. Kappa has 3" vc.

Tiff: Good idea to call Eminence. Will do.

Calaverasgrande · #15 01-29-2011, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Do you work for BagEnd and have access to their driver specs? Otherwise what you're saying is pure speculation.

no I do not but the bagend company has put out nothing but innovative and high quality products. Unlike every other manufacturer they dont dilute their brand with cheap garbage. I think the onus is on you to prove that they are using an off the shelf driver, when they would be one of the companies most likely to evolve a unique specification due to their affiliation with Long/Wickersham Labs. They aren't just a bunch of hacks.

smoov · #16 01-29-2011, 08:50 AM

I have Bag Ends low bass 15 cab...the orig speake looked identical to a Delta pro 15....swapped it out...sounded like crap...reconed the Bag End 15 and wa-la ..sounded like new. THERE IS a difference..

billfitzmaurice · #17 01-29-2011, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddbassGA

4mal: The specs from BE were 2 1/2" voice coil and 80 oz magnet with cast basket. Those are Legend specs.

The voice coil size, magnet weight and basket materials aren't specs. Specs and how they affect response are explained here:
http://www.eminence.com/support/unde...dspeaker-data/

**ddbassGA** · #18 02-01-2011, 03:08 PM

UPDATE:

Talked to Eminence and they said the closest to the BagEnd OEM (model 15907 btw) is their Delta Pro 15A. Comparing the specs they said it's close, not exact. When I asked about the differences: "I'm sorry, Dick, but I can't discuss the details of an OEM design. All I can really say is that the Delta Pro will likely not sound just like the original, but it is similar enough to use as an alternative replacement."

So I went back to BagEnd and asked what the differences would be. I got some very straight forward explanation about a major difference in the voice coil construction (copper edge-wound on the BagEnd vs Aluminum on the Delta). Many of the actual specs (yes Bill) were very similar between the 2 and the frequency resonse curves were close. But what got me ultimately was the difference in resonance. The Delta's resonance is 42Hz while the BagEnd OEM is 35.

That's a fairly major difference and one that makes a difference in this application. I began to appreciate that there could be a major difference in sound with the BE getting down that low yet retaining the high sensitivity. I ordered the BagEnd speaker that was designed for the enclosure.

Thanks to Anthony Lucas at Eminence who is in charge of OEM products for his helpfulness. Thanks to Craig Lockwood at BagEnd for his help and specs on their speaker. Can't say enough good about the customer service at both companies! Nice to be able to talk to real folks who know their products!

And thanks to all of you who had advice. Glad I listened for a change. Man I love TalkBass.

billfitzmaurice · #19 02-01-2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddbassGA

But what got me ultimately was the difference in resonance. The Delta's resonance is 42Hz while the BagEnd OEM is 35.

In and of itself that means very little. Only by modeling the two drivers in the cab with modeling software would you know the end result, and then you need the expertise to interpret the results.

**ddbassGA** · #20 02-01-2011, 03:27 PM

End result for me is this: I became convinced enough, from the advice here based on REAL experiences shared about these drivers, plus the data and help provided by the 2 companies that the BE OEM speaker would meet my needs and provide a sound I expected from this cabinet and that the off-the-shelf alternative would be different enough in some uncertain way that it would be noticed, so that it was worth spending a little more to get the sound I was used to. I didn't get the joy of trying a different speaker that might have even sounded better, but I don't have time or money to experiment with different speakers. And I don't give a rat's ass about modeling software.