REDDI Tube DI Mega-thread-II - Page 21

jeffbonny · #**401** 01-02-2013, 09:46 PM

Ok after a couple of bar gigs with complete raves from a couple of soundmen I've now spent several hours at home with the REDDI through a low end Mackie mixer/SWR Amplite into a Tannoy V8 cab trying various combinations of pedals and even a very brief (and pointless) A/B against a JDI. The conclusion I've come to is that the sound of this thing straight into the mixer with a flat EQ and no other preamping or effects is about as close to my ideal bass sound as I need to come. I'd take this sound into the studio and mic it.

So despite the fact that it wasn't intended as a preamp I'm hard pressed not try to use it as one (and no I'm not going all SpankyPants on y'all, I'm quite happy to solve this one without thinking mods on the actual box itself). I've poured through the thread looking for suggestions of a splitter to pull this off but nothing has really jumped out as a simple, effective solution. I'd like opinions on this Radial JS2. I've used a JS3 in the past and found it to be very uncolored and like all Radial boxes built like a brick $#!&house. Would my JDI in reverse work to step the line level down to instrument level? I'd try it now but I don't have my head handy for a couple of days. A JS2 with the second out being instrument level would be ideal. Radial is only a half hour or so away maybe I can talk them into building me one.......

JimmyM · #**402** 01-02-2013, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJJazzV

I use the REDDI just about every day. Still finishing up a few songs before we go back to the studio, so I use the home recording setup quite often.
The '76 Jazz into the REDDI sounds so good.
I've tried many preamps and pedals into the REDDI, most sound really good, but when the tracks are A/B'd against the REDDI-only tracks, there is always something not as sweet as the REDDI-only tracks.
That's very exciting because that's the signal the sound guys are going to work with when the gigging starts again.

Simple home REDDI setup:

You got monitors to match your REDDI? Nice!

Jeff, I've heard of a lot of DI's working that way, and I imagine the JDI probably would as well. Never tried it with the Countryman...might do that now. Might even try recording a couple samples and see what happens if I go out of the REDDI XLR into the XLR of the Countryman and into the Fast Track 1/4". I'm all shot out of a cannon tonight anyway...beats sitting here on the computer yapping

Eh, on second thought, the Countryman will be NA to you with Radial stuff. The Countryman starts rolling highs off at 10k and the Radial is pretty much a flat line. Never mind. Guess I'll continue yapping.

jeffbonny · #**403** 01-02-2013, 10:53 PM

Upon further perusal of the Radial website a Reamp JCR might be a better choice for going line to instrument level than a backwards JDI. Be nice to save the $200 and use the JDI I already have though. I just wonder what the impedance and actual level coming out of the JDI would be?

JimmyM · #**404** 01-02-2013, 10:59 PM

I'm just wondering where you're going to go to the board with a setup like that. Won't all the XLR's be used up?

jeffbonny · #**405** 01-02-2013, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I'm just wondering where you're going to go to the board with a setup like that. Won't all the XLR's be used up?

No. The mic splitter after the REDDI gives you two XLR line level sends. One goes FOH, the other gets converted to Hi-Z with the reamp box and goes to the amp.

JimmyM · #**406** 01-02-2013, 11:27 PM

Well I can't speak to the Radial, but I've not enjoyed putting anything of mine in front of the REDDI except actual effects. I put a Barber Linden on my upright to balance EQ's and volumes with the electric, but that's it. Might work and I don't have any Radial gear to try, but from my own experiences with signal routing, I've not been as happy with stuff in front of the REDDI as without it. Effects pedal bypasses I can deal with because that just cuts highs I don't want anyway. But man, that near total lack of compression in the REDDI...I hate to mess with that, and any type of DI or preamp I've used along with it does. Obviously the answer is to buy two REDDIs or use the REDDI for house and bring a tube amp for yourself

jeffbonny · #**407** 01-02-2013, 11:30 PM

Yeah, I think all that crap might mess with the signal too much too. I should probably just cough up for another SVT head and commit to hauling it.....

Actually if Peter would make me a Reddi with an instrument level out I probably would buy another one. I like it that much.
I'm starting to SpankyPants like I said I wouldn't aren't I? Sorry.

JimmyM · #**408** 01-03-2013, 02:07 AM

I attempted a SpankyPants when I first got it too, so I can't say anything. But you know, at concerts, signals are split and run to a FOH board, a monitor board, and sometimes a recording board, and it doesn't seem to lose any of its tubey sauce through those mazes. You would think there should be some simple way to feed a house signal and a bass amp from the XLR out without dulling its effectiveness, yet everything I've tried dulls it. What are soundmen doing that SpankyPants and I aren't?

So SVT, eh? What happened to the downsizing? I thought you were going to cut down to bare essentials and live amongst the fish. Now you're talking another SVT?

jeffbonny · #**409** 01-03-2013, 02:29 AM

Once the quest for the Holy Grail starts it's kinda hard to settle....
You ever hear much that sounded better than a B15 or SVT? Me neither.

Since I'm a stone's throw from Radial I'm gonna ask them what it would take to do a splitter for this. The only thing us guys are trying to do that a PA doesn't have to is turn that line level signal into an instrument level signal. This is where a reamper might be the ticket as that's exactly what it's designed to do. If it can't be done simply I probably will trade the Markbass in on an SVT....this damned DI has ruined my willingness to compromise.

JimmyM · #**410** 01-03-2013, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffbonny

Once the quest for the Holy Grail starts it's kinda hard to settle....
You ever hear much that sounded better than a B15 or SVT? Me neither.

Since I'm a stone's throw from Radial I'm gonna ask them what it would take to do a splitter for this. The only thing us guys are trying to do that a PA doesn't have to is turn that line level signal into an instrument level signal. This is where a reamper might be the ticket as that's exactly what it's designed to do. If it can't be done simply I probably will trade the Markbass in on an SVT....this damned DI has ruined my willingness to compromise.

Geez, you sound like me! I feel the same way. I started getting over it, but I still have to admit to being a little jealous when the audience hears REDDI and I hear micro amp. Not that the small stuff sounds bad, but the tube stuff just sounds so good by comparison.

Gab124 · #**411** 01-03-2013, 08:42 AM

Dang guys - I had put all this away in my mind and settled down a bit, now you got me all worked up about it again.

Gab124 · #**412** 01-03-2013, 08:50 AM

Here is the answer! Peter does not have to redesign the REDDI at all, no mods. All he has to do is design a simple box that does what is being lusted over by everyone. Win Win. We get an answer to the problem and he gets a new product to market and make money on! Call it the REDDI-SPLIT or some such creative name.

JimmyM · #**413** 01-03-2013, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gab124

Here is the answer! Peter does not have to redesign the REDDI at all, no mods. All he has to do is design a simple box that does what is being lusted over by everyone. Win Win. We get an answer to the problem and he gets a new product to market and make money on! Call it the REDDI-SPLIT or some such creative name.

Are we overthinking this? I don't have the equipment to try this out, but I wonder if you took a raw wire split of the REDDI's XLR and turned up the level to compensate for splitting the signal in half...

I've been thinking you'd need a buffer to compensate for loss of signal due to splitting, but would you need a buffer if the level control allows you to turn it up super hot? And would the signal degrade if you did it that way? I did see one dude on here doing something like that and he seemed happy with it. You'd just need to transform the XLR signal into a 1/4" signal for the amp side, and I used to have to do that to record into my computer using a Radio Shack transformer, and the effectiveness of the REDDI didn't get dulled at all that I could hear.

It's times like this that I wish I could build electronic stuff

But then I think if it were that easy, more people would have done it a long time ago.

beans-on-toast · #**414** 01-03-2013, 10:32 AM

Below is one way that you can convert from a balanced line to an instrument level. The transformer costs about $70. Jensen sells a variety of pre-made splitters and isolators in the $200 range.

As with everything, these sort of quality add-ons drives up the cost of a DI. Adopting a set of desirable features and offering a product at an affordable price is a difficult balance in a niche market.

DJJazzV · #**415** 01-03-2013, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

You got monitors to match your REDDI? Nice! ...

"You got to coordinate"

JimmyM · #**416** 01-03-2013, 12:38 PM

LOL! Awesome lining!

David, since you really know the inner workings of tube gear, do you think splitting the signal to where 1/2 goes to the house and the other goes to your rig in a transformed line would cause degradation of signal in either other than just needing to boost the level?

jeffbonny · #**417** 01-03-2013, 12:47 PM

Great batch of posts this morning.

A wire split with a box like this should solve the issue. Like the Jensen equipped Radial splitter you only need to isolate one send to get two isolated signals and the transformer in the balanced to unbalanced converter would achieve that. An additional isolated splitter doesn't seem necessary here.

beans-on-toast I'd completely forgotten Jensen has all those schematics. That one would do it and if I had any electronics skills I'd build it myself.

If Peter wanted to make a box like this I'd buy it from him but all this stuff exists already in commercially produced reamping boxes. I probably will go with the $200 Radial JS2 just because it has that Jensen transformer, it's readily available, I can get one from L&M where I can return it if it doesn't work out and I trust the quality of the build. Radial did get back to me this morning saying they don't do mods or custom work which is what I figured they'd say.

beans-on-toast · #**418** 01-03-2013, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

do you think splitting the signal to where 1/2 goes to the house and the other goes to your rig in a transformed line would cause degradation of signal in either other than just needing to boost the level?

People do it with Y splitters and get away with it but you have to be careful with impedance issues which leads to signal degradation. The proper way to do it is with transformers and isolation with a ground lift option. When required, differential line drivers and receivers are used to ensure a wide bandwidth, low noise and distortion so that long cables can be used.

Everything in the signal path affects the sound to some extent. A hack that may work under one set of circumstances may not work under another. At least when it is done right, you stand the best change of delivering a high quality signal.

JimmyM · #**419** 01-03-2013, 06:00 PM

Thanks David...as always, great and informative posts!

beans-on-toast · #**420** 01-03-2013, 07:22 PM

I appreciate that some people would like additional features added to the REDDI but I think they got it right as it is. A simple unencumbered signal path keeps the tone pure. Additional features could affect the sound quality and drive up the cost considerably. If it costed too much and less units were sold as a result, it might become impractical to continue offering the product.