Reliability of amps ?

[Jacob J]

Hi guys,

simply put, for me reliability is as important as sound, features, etc...I know that nowdays thousands of amps per day are being produced and it may occur that some pieces are faulty...But anyway, it bugs me when I´m reading that this or that amp has craped on someone for some unknown reason. For example, I´ve read the Ampeg Portaflex thread and there is a bunch of folks who seem to have some kind of problem with those amps. Also there is a thread regarding non-reliability of GK amps and so on...

Therefore my questions are :

1. Does problems with reliability concern more D-Class over other kinds of power sections in amps ?

2. Are there any producers which are well-known for producing rock solid amps even within their low-cost series ?

3. Is the factor of reliability really important for you as well ?

[JimmyM]

1. Not from what I've seen. All amps can break, even the very best made stuff on the planet.

2. Almost all the name brands are pretty reliable, a very small handful aren't, but again, any amp can break at any time.

3. Absolutely, but what counts for me even more is that a company stands behind its warranty if something breaks.

[B-string]

I was just about to start a thread to challenge the manufacturers to post their reliability record in percent per number of units sold? How they backup their product is very important as well, people should be educated to understand that new designs/typologies do have a shaking out period. It is supposed to be science, but a prototype run of 100 units may not bear out the variables found from a 1000 unit run.

[dog1]

I must have been lucky. I have never had to take an amp in for repair after 44 years. (except for a Peavey T Max pre)

However, I did send my GB NeoPak 3.5 in to be modified to be 2 ohm stable. Turn around of 6 working days, at no charge. I was so impressed with their great customer service and tone/reliability of their amps, I now own 3 GB heads. They're my only amps, and will be.

But, as Jimmy said, anything that is made by man, can break. No exceptions. So, look for the best customer service after the sale.

[Rick Auricchio]

Often the cause of amp failures comes right through the power line. People run generators at outdoor events, with resulting power sags and surges. (Properly-sized and operated generators are usually fine, however.) Improperly wired stages also supply rotten power.

These failures, while common, are not the fault of the amp manufacturers. Any amp can be damaged by bad power.

[dog1]

Originally Posted by Rick Auricchio

Often the cause of amp failures comes right through the power line. People run generators at outdoor events, with resulting power sags and surges. (Properly-sized and operated generators are usually fine, however.) Improperly wired stages also supply rotten power.

These failures, while common, are not the fault of the amp manufacturers. Any amp can be damaged by bad power.

+1 Don't starve your amp, or hit it with a surge

[Gearhead17]

I agree with the above statements.

One brand that has reliability issues is Behringer - I have owned a few of their PA products and watched how fast they failed....even when I took care of them.

You take a chance no matter what you buy.

[Windreaper]

Originally Posted by B-string

I was just about to start a thread to challenge the manufacturers to post their reliability record in percent per number of units sold?

I would love to see amp failure rates but can't think of a major manufacturer crazy enough to publish them...

[MissionTbird]

I guess we should also consider whether people with amp problems are more prone to hang around and write about their amp-breakdowns in forums than the crowd without any problems.

[JimmyM]

A lot of folks join forums like this one specifically to address problems or to complain, so it would tend to skew the results some.

[1n3]

Originally Posted by Windreaper

I would love to see amp failure rates but can't think of a major manufacturer crazy enough to publish them...

+1!

[::::BASSIST::::]

Amp failure is something I am very much concerned about and definitely effects my purchasing decisions. From reading about amp issues on TB I always keep a spare amp in my trunk while gigging.

[Jacob J]

Thanks for your insides guys. The thing is that I´ve owned only 3 amps so far. The first was Behringer BX3000T, second Fender PRO400 combo and third Ashdown ABM Evo III. I had no problems with any of them, but you guys have much more experience with various brands, you have owned much more gear...Also I think that since majority of brands are US based, it is easier for you to call the company that you have a problem with their product. That being said, I´ve thought whether it would be better for me to stick with EU based companies like TC, Markbass and so on...I really don´t know...

[tekdiver500ft]

You really can't go wrong with any big name company. Yes, they all have failures. As Jimmy said, be more concerned with their customer service reputation. Being that you live in the EU, you may well have quicker CS results from a company based there. OTOH, if you are able to buy a new amp from another company there, then you can get their CS there also. I really wouldn't be the least bit concerned about buying from any reputable company, regardless of country of origin.

[fingerbun]

Originally Posted by Gearhead17

I agree with the above statements.

One brand that has reliability issues is Behringer - I have owned a few of their PA products and watched how fast they failed....even when I took care of them.

You take a chance no matter what you buy.

I have a Behringer practice amp that has been uber reliable for as long as I have had it, maybe 5 years?

I bought a Mesa Walkabout and it went back under warranty in about 10 days.

You can't pick it.

(Mind you the Mesa is obviously better made).

[KJung]

Originally Posted by MissionTbird

I guess we should also consider whether people with amp problems are more prone to hang around and write about their amp-breakdowns in forums than the crowd without any problems.

TB is actually a VERY good indication of the reliability of amps. The issue you mention above is somewhat true, but of course, it would be a constant across all manufacturers, so the relative difference is very meaningful.

An indication of reliability is not how many post that they have no problems, but the relative number of posts by people who do have issues.

That being said, many companies have a few glitches with new products in the first one or two production runs. So, posts of a few problems from early adoptors who purchase the first batch of products is not particularly indicative of problems (although I would recommend NOBODY buying a new product when they first come out, unless you realize that you have a higher probability of that product needed an upgrade or a trip back to the repair shop).

The problems with a few companies (GK was mentioned above and Mesa seems to have the same issue) is that they seem to use the consumer as their final round of beta testing, resulting in some of their products requiring many rounds of revisions and what seems like a higher than typical failure rate for MUCH longer than the initial product run. And, even these companies eventually 'get it right'.

Amp heads are so much more reliable now than back in the day that it has almost become a zero issue, at least with established products.

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by ::::BASSIST::::

Amp failure is something I am very much concerned about and definitely effects my purchasing decisions. From reading about amp issues on TB I always keep a spare amp in my trunk while gigging.

Probably the best thing you can do, and that's why I carry a GK MB 200 in my gig bag. It's already saved my ass once when my old Ashly preamp died on a gig recently.

[RickenBoogie]

Big +1 to KJung's post #16. Truth.

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by KJung

The problems with a few companies (GK was mentioned above and Mesa seems to have the same issue) is that they seem to use the consumer as their final round of beta testing, resulting in some of their products requiring many rounds of revisions and what seems like a higher than typical failure rate for MUCH longer than the initial product run. And, even these companies eventually 'get it right'.

Amp heads are so much more reliable now than back in the day that it has almost become a zero issue, at least with established products.

Ken,
This certainly true in other areas outside of amps as well. Not to derail this thread completely, but I was once involved as a beta tester for library circulation software.
Essentially, what happened was that the company involved used us as their actual Alpha tests, and did precious little in house evaluation of the products reliability. We were supposed to be the Beta testers. They didn't listen.
I would suspect that the price point involved in a particular amp (which usually determines where it was built), under what conditions it was built, how much quality control was applied to the build, and how the burn in tests were evaluated and then used to tweak the amplifier. I think this stuff gets very convoluted when you have to fly back and forth between another country, use a translator, and supervise the builds via email, cell phones, and video conferencing. That doesn't mean that it can't work very well though. Although, I have heard that a large shipment of a certain manufactures bass amps disappeared from one of their shipping trucks in China never to be seen again. Somali amp pirates perhaps.

Ric

[fingerbun]

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

I think this stuff gets very convoluted when you have to fly back and forth between another country, use a translator, and supervise the builds via email, cell phones, and video conferencing.

Ric

The counter is that you have to cut a lot more corners to be price competitive in a country where labour is dear.

There is a side issue that you learn by doing. As more stuff is made in China their skills grow. As less is made in the US their skills diminish. I think there will come a time when the US can no longer match Chinese quality.