repair shop shenanigans

[CDweller]

I purchased a brand new Mesa 400+ in February of 2010 from the Chicago Bass Traders. I didn't use the amp except for one rehearsal and perhaps another three hours total use since then. The amp developed a crackling and popping issue when first turned on in standby and when placed on standby. I brought it to Hi Energy, a Mesa authorized warranty repair shop here in Clearwater about six weeks ago.

After couple of weeks, they said they couldn't find the issue, and that I could come pick it up. I knew the drill- I had to pick it up, have it not work properly for the same thing I brought it in for, and return it. So that's what I did. I brought it home, and it did the same exact thing. Brought it back, and showed it to them. They said, "Oh, it only does this when it's in its rack case. Ok, we'll fix it." So they did. They claimed it had two bad output tubes, and charged me $160+ for the new Mesa proprietary tubes and installation. Of course, you have to buy the Mesa tubes to keep the warranty in effect.

Picked it up a week later, brought it home. Fired it up, and then the standby switch had some sort of arcing issue which resulted in a different kind of popping sound which made the amp unusable. The amp did not have this problem before I brought it to them. Back to the shop. "Oh, we'll fix it." They did, taking two weeks to do so. This repair was done under Mesa's warranty.

Picked the amp up, brought it home. It died within two minutes of turning it on. Called Mesa, spoke with a fellow named "Markus". He listened to the symptoms, and thought it was a failed preamp tube.

Do tubes just fail from sitting in an amp and not being used? This amp has maybe six hours on it since it was constructed in 2007. The only thing I can think of is that Chicago Bass Traders was not forthright when they said the amp was new in the box when they sold it to me, but that's exactly how the amp appeared when I received it.

I think I'm getting the runaround here from either Mesa or Hi Energy.

[runmikeyrun]

first off, I don't think highly of Mesa tubes... chinese junk. Second, they shouldn't have charged you for tubes if its under warranty. Third, there's almost no way this Markus dude can diagnose your amp over the phone, especially one as complex as yours. Fourth, you need to call Mesa and demand a refund for the $160 or a replacement amp. Make sure to complain about the shop who's been working on it, they may get a phone call from Mesa. Fifth, take your amp to a different authorized repair shop.

I almost forgot- try swapping out each preamp tube one at a time with a new one that you know is good. That will tell you in 5 minutes if you have a bad preamp tube or not, instead of taking it back to the shop again. It may just solve your problem. If you've got arcing in your power supply (which could cause the crackling) it can pop a tube- just happened to me in one of my amps.

I know it's under warranty but learning how to fix your own stuff is an invaluable skill. If it's something simple you can save yourself a lot of time, driving, and aggravation.

Good luck.

[CDweller]

Originally Posted by runmikeyrun

first off, I don't think highly of Mesa tubes... chinese junk. Second, they shouldn't have charged you for tubes if its under warranty. Third, there's almost no way this Markus dude can diagnose your amp over the phone, especially one as complex as yours. Fourth, you need to call Mesa and demand a refund for the $160 or a replacement amp. Make sure to complain about the shop who's been working on it, they may get a phone call from Mesa. Fifth, take your amp to a different authorized repair shop.

I almost forgot- try swapping out each preamp tube one at a time with a new one that you know is good. That will tell you in 5 minutes if you have a bad preamp tube or not, instead of taking it back to the shop again. It may just solve your problem. If you've got arcing in your power supply (which could cause the crackling) it can pop a tube- just happened to me in one of my amps.

I know it's under warranty but learning how to fix your own stuff is an invaluable skill. If it's something simple you can save yourself a lot of time, driving, and aggravation.

Good luck.

Thanks for the information. Unfortunately, tubes are only under warranty for six months with Mesa. I'm a year and a half into the warranty at this point.

What I don't understand is tubes failing without having been used all that much. In this case, the amp's been gently used about six hours since new, and the amp itself has not been stressed at all when not used. It has remained in my apartment in air conditioned comfort for its entire life.

The 400+ was last produced in 2008, so there are no new ones available. Good sounding amp, but it's reminding me of a Jaguar XKE- usually broke, but heavenly when it runs....

[Caca de Kick]

I agree with the junk tubes comment. I never liked using them in my Bass 400.
I sent my 3 month old Titan back to Mesa to have the updates done. They told me while a few things were getting replaced they also installed a new set of preamp tubes. When I got it back, a preamp tube failed the 2nd day I played it. I immediately ripped the rest of those junkers out and put in a set of my favorite.

I really do feel for you having so much go screwey with your relatively new head. But I also agree that warranty facility you are using just plain sucks.

You say your amp simply died. Did you check the fuse? If the fuse is good, Does the amp light up when you turn it on? If it's on, look at all the tubes...are they all lit?

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by CDweller

What I don't understand is tubes failing without having been used all that much. In this case, the amp's been gently used about six hours since new, and the amp itself has not been stressed at all when not used. It has remained in my apartment in air conditioned comfort for its entire life.

Tubes made these days don't have the QC levels of the older tubes. A lot of tubes that should have been thrown out end up making their way to gear. Hence, they fail early without much effort on your part.

[JimmyM]

Also, if you can make it over to Kissimmee with your amp, I highly recommend Welcome to Hendrix Sound, Inc. . He's also a Mesa authorized repair center, and one of the smartest no BS techs I've ever seen.

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by CDweller

Thanks for the information. Unfortunately, tubes are only under warranty for six months with Mesa. I'm a year and a half into the warranty at this point.

What I don't understand is tubes failing without having been used all that much. In this case, the amp's been gently used about six hours since new, and the amp itself has not been stressed at all when not used. It has remained in my apartment in air conditioned comfort for its entire life.

The 400+ was last produced in 2008, so there are no new ones available. Good sounding amp, but it's reminding me of a Jaguar XKE- usually broke, but heavenly when it runs....

Anything else cool with up to twelve output devices they cant fix properly in Florida?.
This is so simple to get right!, are we to believe that the current tube production is so poor they cant actually make 20 tubes 12 being 6l6 and five odd 12ax7s that will operate at a fairly cold bias for 6 months.?!
I would rather sell mesa their crap tubes back and buy a set of new old stock mullard 6ca7's for the power amp and cv4004's for the pre then forget about the tubes for at least 15 years of trouble free performance.
Fit a fixed variable bias system in the power amp the moment its out of warranty.

[CDweller]

Originally Posted by Caca de Kick

I agree with the junk tubes comment. I never liked using them in my Bass 400.
I sent my 3 month old Titan back to Mesa to have the updates done. They told me while a few things were getting replaced they also installed a new set of preamp tubes. When I got it back, a preamp tube failed the 2nd day I played it. I immediately ripped the rest of those junkers out and put in a set of my favorite.

I really do feel for you having so much go screwey with your relatively new head. But I also agree that warranty facility you are using just plain sucks.

You say your amp simply died. Did you check the fuse? If the fuse is good, Does the amp light up when you turn it on? If it's on, look at all the tubes...are they all lit?

Fuse is good, and the tubes glow. If the amp wasn't under warranty, I'd get some NOS tubes in there right away.

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Tubes made these days don't have the QC levels of the older tubes. A lot of tubes that should have been thrown out end up making their way to gear. Hence, they fail early without much effort on your part.

Man, if only these manufacturers knew how important reliability and tone are!

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Also, if you can make it over to Kissimmee with your amp, I highly recommend Welcome to Hendrix Sound, Inc. . He's also a Mesa authorized repair center, and one of the smartest no BS techs I've ever seen.

I'll bring it to him for the adjustable bias once the warranty is up. The amp sounds good when it works....

Originally Posted by Bassmec

Anything else cool with up to twelve output devices they cant fix properly in Florida?.
This is so simple to get right!, are we to believe that the current tube production is so poor they cant actually make 20 tubes 12 being 6l6 and five odd 12ax7s that will operate at a fairly cold bias for 6 months.?!
I would rather sell mesa their crap tubes back and buy a set of new old stock mullard 6ca7's for the power amp and cv4004's for the pre then forget about the tubes for at least 15 years of trouble free performance.
Fit a fixed variable bias system in the power amp the moment its out of warranty.

Agreed, my friend. I've actually got NOS CV4004's for the pre in my greedy little hands right now, but I need to get this amp stable before putting them in there. I'm looking at RCA Blackfaces for the 6L6's, though I must say you English blokes certainly did do tubes right, and Mullards are in the running. Adjustable bias goes in once the warranty is over, though the warranty isn't really doing me justice.

[Rafael]

Hmmm....OK you say the amp crackled when you turned it on in standby....can you clarify? Do you mean even with the amp on standby you get crackling, or did you mean when you turn the standby off and on you get crackling?

From your mention of the standby problem, plus your later remark that you had an arcing issue they worked on separately, I'm suspicious of the standby switch bypass cap.

If the standby is truly off and you hear ANYTHING when turning off/on there is a problem since with the standby off ALL high voltage is cut off to the amp and you should hear nothing. I'd suspect that bypass cap is intermitant or even perhaps shorted now if you get arcing. . . and it could also be the switch itself....if you're getting nothing now the standby switch could be broken open and all you're seeing is the tubes warming up and that explains no sound now.