Replacement 15's suggestions please. (with pic and cab. vol.)

eyeballkid · #1 11-10-2010, 09:16 AM

So Ive had my ol Fender 215 Pro for sale, and Im thinking I might just turn it into what I want. I was selling it cos I want it to be a 4 ohm instead of 8, and to be a little more low and wooly sounding while handling more watts.. (its currently 300watts at 8 ohms.) This has been the reason I was gonna sell it, and seems to be the drawback most potential buyers are finding. I mean who wants a big ol 215 that is only 8ohm?!! so perhaps I should just correct it and keep it...

I like it with my tube amps, but with my Ashdown it sounds a little bright and projected instead of warm and syrupy (with a present upper end still) like I want. Also, its only giving me half the power the amp can put out..

so what 15s would you recommend and why?
a pic of it is in my link in my sig... and it is 7.3c ft inside and ported.
(inner dimensions 38x15x24 with port across the bottom that is 3.25 high and in two sections of 11 inches in width with just a structural support in the center)
is that enough info?

THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ANY HELP..

jastacey · #2 11-10-2010, 09:33 AM

I would load it with the Emienance 3015, it is a pretty good driver, I've loaded it into my old home-built TL-606 cabinets, and it sounds really nice with all the amps I have and from what I've viewed here on talkbass, the 3015 is pretty forgiving in what it's mounted into, since they are 8 ohm speakers, wire them positive to positive and negative to negative to get 4 ohms and your good to go

DukeLeJeune · #3 11-10-2010, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeballkid

so what 15s would you recommend and why?
a pic of it is in my link in my sig... and it is 7.3c ft inside and ported.

Thanks for providing the internal volume.

I'm making a guess that the port tuning is in the mid to upper 40's. If so, I think the Eminence CH2515 will give you the kind of "fat" bottom end you want in that cab.

The Deltalite II 2515 will be closer to "flat" in the bass region, while the Kappalite 3015 is more "tight" (less upper bass energy, gentler rolloff).

eyeballkid · #4 11-10-2010, 09:49 AM

so on ratings of speakers when it says "compliance equivalent vol", is that the minimum suggested internal volume of your cab? the maximum? or should the cab be REAL close to that number?
btw.. i cant seem to find an "eminence CH2515" when i google it, just the deltalite 2515s

**Freddels** · #5 11-10-2010, 12:43 PM

I believe Orange puts in the Eminence Kappa in their 15 cab. Not sure how the Kappa differs from the 3015 or the 2515 (except as to weight).

DukeLeJeune · #6 11-10-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeballkid

so on ratings of speakers when it says "compliance equivalent vol", is that the minimum suggested internal volume of your cab? the maximum? or should the cab be REAL close to that number?
btw.. i cant seem to find an "eminence CH2515" when i google it, just the deltalite 2515s

That should have been "C2515", sorry for the typo. Here's the spec sheet:

http://www.eminence.com/pdf/basslite-c2515.pdf

Compliance equivalent volume or "Vas" is not a suggested volume, just an expression of suspension compliance put into a format that is easy to calculate with.

eyeballkid · #7 11-10-2010, 02:20 PM

those are actually 4 ohms each... so thats a scrub unless they make an 8 ohm version.
I need two 8 ohm speakers...

DukeLeJeune · #8 11-10-2010, 02:23 PM

You're absolutely right, my bad. They are indeed 4 ohms. The Alphalite is probably your best bet then, in a neo magnet.

billfitzmaurice · #9 11-10-2010, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeballkid

I mean who wants a big ol 215 that is only 8ohm... its only giving me half the power the amp can put out..

Probably moot, unless you have a low powered amp. The cabinet thermal power rating means next to nothing; what matters is the maximum driver displacement. Most fifteens can't make use of much more than 150 watts, Eminence 2515 included. The valid reason for 'needing' a four ohm cab is when you have a tube amp that doesn't have an 8 ohm tap.

eyeballkid · #10 11-10-2010, 02:49 PM

is there a speaker youd recommend bill?... and does the tuning of the cab have a big effect here? Cos the more Im lookin into this and trying to figure it out, the more confusing its been getting lately!

billfitzmaurice · #11 11-10-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeballkid

is there a speaker youd recommend bill?... and does the tuning of the cab have a big effect here? Cos the more Im lookin into this and trying to figure it out, the more confusing its been getting lately!

I can't recommend anything without knowing what drivers are in the cab now and what you're trying to get that they can't deliver.

eyeballkid · #12 11-10-2010, 03:27 PM

well i dont know for sure whats in em, as fender has them listed as "two fender special designed eminences", but they are 150watt/16ohm speakers and i know they are steel frames with 2.5" voice coils with 56 oz magnets.. the specs run ALOT like Eminence Delta 15Bs...

as for what Im looking for it would be that I find it to be a bit bright for my tastes for a 215 cab, which for some is a plus, but I would like more syrupy throb in the low end that doesnt overdo the speakers.. I feel like by the time I get it in the sweet spot tonally at the volume we play that Im running close to the speakers capacity.

The cab right now has a good mid and high projection, but i want more fundamental lows.... basically Id like it to sound like my newer Fender 215Pro, the one they currently sell with the blue tinted "fender specially designed Eminences". (god I hate that they do that!!)
does that give ya an idea?
btw.. thanks for your expertise once again!

billfitzmaurice · #13 11-10-2010, 08:27 PM

56oz magnets indicate a Delta 15 motor, but with a 150w rating a very old one, probably with even less xmax than the current versions, so very limited in low end output. I suspect Deltalite II 2515s would beat them soundly, with probably at least twice the displacement. That makes a four ohm cab the only option, as 2515s only come 8 ohm. 3015s will beat your newer cab, as they have higher displacement than any full range ceramic fifteen that Eminence makes.

eyeballkid · #14 11-10-2010, 08:57 PM

So youre saying that either the 2515s or the 3015s would be good options with more low end output?.. does it matter at all how the cabinet is "tuned"? Ive been reading some things that make it sound like the cab may be tuned a bit high in the 55-70 hz range and that would cause an inefficiency in low reaching speakers and such....

Thanks so much Bill, and Duke!

btw.. i added dimensions in the OP.

billfitzmaurice · #15 11-10-2010, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeballkid

does it matter at all how the cabinet is "tuned"?

All the difference in the world. 2515s and 3015s generally work best at 40-45 Hz, depending on cab size.

DukeLeJeune · #16 11-11-2010, 12:40 AM

Eyeball, can you measure what the depth of the port is? I presume there's an internal shelf that forms the top of the port - how deep is that, or in other words, how far back does it go?

This will give us a better chance to estimate the ballpark tuning frequency.

Thanks!

eyeballkid · #17 11-11-2010, 07:41 AM

there is no shelf to make a port passageway, there is only an opening in the face at the bottom that is 3.25" x 11'', then a support an inch wide that just is at the front, and then another 3.25" x 11" opening. If I reach in i can touch the back of the speakers.

**Freddels** · #18 11-11-2010, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeballkid

there is no shelf to make a port passageway, there is only an opening in the face at the bottom that is 3.25" x 11'', then a support an inch wide that just is at the front, and then another 3.25" x 11" opening. If I reach in i can touch the back of the speakers.

So,it's just an opening like the TL-606 cabs.

DukeLeJeune · #19 11-11-2010, 11:35 PM

Okay if the baffle is 3/4" thick, then the depth of the port is 3/4".

I estimate the tuning frequency at 57 Hz. Imho that's too high to protect against fartout in a big cab.

Here is what I suggest: Take a piece of "1X2" white pine (which is actually .75" x 1.5") and cut it to the internal width of the cabinet. Glue and/or screw it in place inside the cabinet, along the top of the opening, thus making the opening 1.5" deeper, which will lower the tuning frequency to about 49 Hz (if my estimates are correct). This will give you reasonable protection against fartout, assuming low-E tuning.

If you want a 4 ohm load and a fairly flat low end, go with the Deltalites. If you want a 4 ohm load and you're planning to crank in whatever bass boost you need in order to get the tone you want, go with the Kappalite 3015s because they can take more boost. If you want a fat bottom end and decide that you can live with an 8 ohm load, go with the Basslite C2515s.

Bassmec · #20 11-12-2010, 08:17 AM

I wonder if this speaker might be worth a model in that cab:
http://professional.celestion.com/pr...TR15-3018E.pdf
It appears a couple of dB down on spl? but I think if you look at the respective graphs it falls off at both ends of the graph
a bit less dramatically or in smoothly eq-able points?.
http://eminence.com/pdf/kappalite-3015.pdf
Wow thats a very damped graph I wonder what analyzer that was a screen shot of?.
God knows what these salesmen can do with an Iphone app
these days?.