Researching 2 balanced, full range cabs. Opinions?

[jonesn4bass]

Hey everybody -

It's just about time to start thinking about getting a couple new cabs and I'm in need of some guidance. There are too many options, and not enough hours in the day to do all the research myself!

I am currently playing through a Carvin Redeye 4x10 and 1x15 powered by a Carvin B1500. It's a pretty decent sounding setup and I have been satisfied with it for many years now. I started feeling like I was missing out though when I began sharing a practice space with another band. Their bass player had the same head as me but was running through a 2x15. I used his cab a few times and LOVED the depth that I could pull from it. Now I'm longing for more...

I currently play in hard rock band, one guitar, vocals, and the LOUDEST drummer on Earth. Usually I put the 4x10 on my side of the stage and put the 1x15 by the guitar player so he can have a monitor. (We're far from famous and most of the dives we play aren't classy enough for monitors!!)

So here's the problem - I want the depth that the 15's produce, and my guitar player complains about the 15" not having the clarity he'd like on his side. Obviously one option is to just swap sides, but I'd rather have nice even sound on both sides.

I'm interested in the Genz Benz NeoX 212, the Acme B-2, Dr. Bass 2460 (used) and - if money weren't an issue (which it is) - the Trace Elliot 1015. I have also been following the threads on Carvin 1503, and despite mixed reviews, it sounds pretty decent.

Anything I'm missing? Obviously size and price are factors as always, but any suggestions you all have can only help.

Thanks everybody!

[rpsands]

What you're missing #1 is that if you put two bass cabs on opposite side of the stage you're shooting yourself in the foot. LF sources go right next to each other, or extremely far away. You are probably losing quite a lot of volume due to LF cancellations.

Get a fEarful 1212/6. With the B1500 you will be able to make sure everyone on stage hears you no problem.

There are quite a few builders working in the fEarful wiki now and Don @ LDS is available as well.

[RickenBoogie]

Big +1, plus, it's a fallacy that 15's produce more low end, and 410's produce more top. They're both full range cabs, with the 410 putting out much more actual volume. Matched cabs, or big cabs, (like the 2x15), are a much better option, overall.

[ErnieD]

if you dont care about your tone or volume, just put the 410 over by the guitardist and you keep the 115 by you, sacrifice fly. I doubt you'd prefer that and I've never understood that whole 2 cabs, one on each side of stage thing, so Im guessing blind here. I feel 2 bass cabs stacked gives you and bandmates all you need, but that's just me.

Now, just for the helluva it, well and to sorta experiment with my new amp setup attempt. I used my Eden 410xlt, 4 ohm with a GB Neox112T, 8 ohm on top last nite. The 410 was facing stage front, the 112 was facing left towards my drummer. He always complains he can't hear me well, so I stuck it in his ear. So instead of cranking the 410, at a club that complains of volume, I aimed the 112 at drummy and fed it with one of the F1's. 2nd F1 went to the 410XLT below it.

Another reason I tried this is cause I just wanted to try my 2 Markbass F1's setup, one to each cab. It worked out well. Drummy/Keys/guitard, heard my 112T cab facing them and I kept my 410 in a good place,volume wise, according to house PA dude. He said the bass was good out front, no PA support and I wasn't killing the crowd.

But I could tell I had big, thick lows with Eden 410xlt+ Fender Am St P5 bass(mit flats)+ VT pedal, it was pretty killer sounding. So drums/keys/guitard to left of me could hear me great thru the 112 cab, at least they said they could, rare and I controlled my FOH volume, sorta. Coolio!

Oh, and I was about to pull trigger and buy a Dr bass 115 cab from a TBer here to try get more lows. But, sorry TBer dude, I can get real nice lows from that 112 or second 212T or Eden 210 cabs I already own, just as easy. Plus I just lost 2 regular, monthly gigs just now and should not be buying anymore than the 7 cabs I already own. Yeow-Ming!

I was just getting real gassy with a zero balance credit card and too much time on my hands. But I'd love to have a B2 or Dr bass 115 just for fun, just aint smart money right now, Dang it.

Now, I just got home from a banquet room wedding gig where I used a single, GB Neox 212T cab w/LMII+ MTD (modded) KZ5. I totally ruled the room. I got so many compliments on my volume/tone/low end from other musicos in the joint. It sure felt good near me but I had no idea how good it was for them. LOL

Ya know, I think as bassists we never quite feel we're giving the room enough volume or low end, but we just might be wrong (GIANTS ) fellas. Just saying. Oh but I still want a 115 or B2 cab... GAS is beyotch, aint it.

[jonesn4bass]

Thanks for the input so far guys!

rpsands - I completely agree that having both cabs on one side is better for me and the sound of my rig. Unfortunately, my guitar player has a rough time with that at some of our smaller gigs with no monitors. If only drummers had a volume knob.....

I have very loosely been following the fEarful builds and trying to decide if I have the patience and skill to build one. ....I'm still up in the air about that. What is the estimated cost to build a 1212/6. I know finish and trim vary depending on builder, but materials and speaker costs are pretty consistent.

RickenBoogie - At the risk of sounding completely uneducated, how is that a 15" and 10" produce the same low end? The Carvin frequency ratings put the 10's at 60 - 5k and put the 15's at 38 - 3.5k. Doesn't that mean the 15" can handle lower frequencies? I'm sorry in advance if that's a really dumb question! ....maybe that's why I've never really considered building my own cab.....

ErnieD - I actually hadn't considered placing the cabs together but tilting one toward the band and one toward the house. I'll go ahead and give that a try.

Thanks guys!!

[Floyd Eye]

Dude, do not separate your cabs. I run a Carvin RL1000 with an R4X10 and an R1X18. Everyone hears me, promise. My neighbors at the opposite end of the street can't hear my band practice ( and we are loud), but they can hear that bass pumping. Plenty of lows, plenty of crisp mids. The rig you have should kill.

If your guitar player is having problems with the volume of your drummer, why is that your problem? Tell the guitarist to get him some in ears. No matter what kind of dive you play, you should have monitors and I see no logical reason why YOU should provide the monitors for anyone other than yourself.

[lomo]

Separating the cabs makes no sense at all. Another vote here for a fearful type cab. I put my LDS 15/6 up on a stand and we can all hear it well, even though we're (too) loud on stage.
The 6 puts out gobs of easily audible midrange and with enough power into 8 Ohms the box gets insanely loud.

[RickenBoogie]

Originally Posted by jonesn4bass;9132440

RickenBoogie - At the risk of sounding [U

completely[/u] uneducated, how is that a 15" and 10" produce the same low end? The Carvin frequency ratings put the 10's at 60 - 5k and put the 15's at 38 - 3.5k. Doesn't that mean the 15" can handle lower frequencies? I'm sorry in advance if that's a really dumb question!

The answer is not simple, and I certainly didn't understand it before spending WAY too much time on this very site, but it goes something like this: the biggest part of the equation concerning low end is cabinet design and tuning. Doesn't matter so much what size drivers are in the cab. In your specific case, it seems the 15 was, in fact, designed to go lower. This is usually not the case, and my first response was a very general answer, because lots of guys put a rig together with a 15 and 410, expecting the 15 to provide the bottom the 410 supposedly lacks. In most cases, this is false. Even the spec's you quoted may not be actual real world response frequencies, because all that science is easy to fudge. BUT- as to splitting your cabs up, that is not helping you one bit, so +1 to those responses as well. You'd be much better off with your cabs in a vertical stack, in a corner, facing out to the whole band. And your original question, I've never been in a situation with a loud hard rock band where my 2x15 hasn't been all I needed, for me, the audience, and the whole band. Hope you get your tone across, too, good luck.

[Bmorefoozler]

Just to piggy-back on boogie...

Your 4x10 is also more likely to have more sensitve output where you REALLY hear it and feel it in the 70-150hz range.


Also, the fearful type cabs will have wider dispersion, making the other side of the stage hear you easier.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

Tell the guitarist to get him some in ears. No matter what kind of dive you play, you should have monitors and I see no logical reason why YOU should provide the monitors for anyone other than yourself.

+100. Nothing good comes of separating your cabs, it actually robs you of bass output when you do so. As for the guitar'd player hearing you, what he can't hear is the mids, and unless you have your extension cab either tilted up at him or lifted to ear level he still won't hear your mids. What's called for here is monitors, the entire reason they exist is so that you can hear each other.

[jonesn4bass]

Thank you so much for all your input guys! Apparently I was in dire need of some education!

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around building a fEarful 1212/6...

To derail (kinda) my own thread - if you were in my shoes, looking buy something that will put out some fat bass while not losing the highs, be capable of handling the B1500, and (less importantly) still be portable - what would you all consider? I really like the sound of 2x15's, but I'm not about to start hauling one around. I play hard rock primarily.

In an ideal world I would be able to try out tons of different cabs to make the decision, but in the Berkshires, that's difficult.

As I mentioned in the original postings, I've been casually considering the Genz Benz NeoX 212, Genz Benz Uber 212, Dr. Bass 2460 (possibly w/ the 1580), Acme B-4......or....anything else...

I will most certainly be heeding all your advise and keeping whatever I get to my own side of the stage. .....Hell, I'll probably only end up buying one cab now. That'll be nice for transportation's sake....and my wallet.

Thanks!